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  • Orient Stemmed?

    I have read some references to the Orient Stemmed point which seems to be a type unique to the areas within spitting distance of Narragansett Bay. As I understand it, these are basically Orient Fishtails with stem in the place of the tail. I'd be interested to see any examples you New England hunters have found, I believe I have two in my collection, along with two other brokes that may or may not be. I find it fascinating that these sub-types exist and even more so that they don't get much ink in the books I've read.

    I can't help it, I automatically refer to them as "Gansett Stemmed"

    Here's a pic of the points I think may fit the description, I'm hoping CMD and some of the other SE NE guys will chime in and populate this thread with some prime examples.
    undefinedThe lefthand example might be a Merrimack(?), the middle two are the ones I believe might be decent examples of the type and the righthand one... without a base, it's pretty hard to tell.

  • #2
    I do not see any in your picture. They were named for points found at Orient Point on Long Island Sound. Ritchie named them and there are some pictures and notes on the following pages.




    TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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    • #3
      I thought you might like to know they tend to be thin and pretty flat in cross section. I do have some but I have no way of getting at them at the moment. I lost a lot of pictures when I recently reinstalled windows 10. The actual points I could show are packed away at this time.
      TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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      • #4
        Matt,

        Thanks for the response, but I was not referring to the 'fishtail' variety, I was referring to the 'stemmed' variety that I have read a few RI/SE Mass collectors reference... CMD in particular. I'm paraphrasing, but I believe it was CMD that said he felt that there was a stemmed variety of the Orient Fishtail that was hyper-localized to the areas within and directly adjacent to Narragansett Bay... and if my memory serves, he called them 'Orient Stemmed'. It's possible I may be mixing things up and read that somewhere else though, maybe he'll weigh in here at some point.

        I have yet to find a Fishtail, but I hope I will be lucky enough to pick one up at some point.

        Thanks again,
        -Dave

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        • #5
          Don't know much about the NE points but I like the ones you have posted. ...Chuck
          Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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          • #6
            The ones in the picture look like a Merrimack and maybe two Greene types..and the last I can't tell...

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            • #7
              Here are some Merrimacks and a greene...

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              • #8
                TSUMS I was leaning Merrimack on the left one as well, I hadn't considered Greene for the middle two because of their narrow width, but I have only seen a handful of Greenes... Thanks for taking the time to post the pics!

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                • #9
                  Yes, indeed, in the Spring 1999 edition of the Bulletin of the Massachusetts Archaeological Society, RI archaeologists Alan Leveillee and Joseph Waller, Jr. suggested the type name Orient Stemmed, to be distinguished from Orient Fishtail. They suggested it represented the adoptation of the Orient Fishtail style by the existent Small Stemmed Tradition. The article was entitled "A Hybrid Point Type in the Narragansett Basin: Orient Stemmed". You can find that article here:

                  http://library.bridgew.edu/exhibits/...MAS-v60n01.pdf

                  In the Fall 2004 edition of the Bulletin of MAS, Bernard Otto offered more examples of this type in an article entitled "Probable Early Woodland Fish Spearing Points from Kingston, Ma." He shows many examples, and you can see that article here:



                  To the best of my knowledge, the type name has not been officially erected, but, in the revised and unpublished edition of his New England guide, Boudreau does include a couple on his pages devoted to Orient Fishtails. I have found many Orient Stemmed over the years. The first three shown here are all from the same multicomponent site dating Late Paleo-Contact. This site yielded both Orient Fishtail and Orient Stemmed. But, bear in mind, it is not an official type name. I never doubted their relationship to the more classic form of Orient Fishtail, however. The last, or 4th example, seen here is from a different multicomponent site on Narragansett Bay. The Narragansett Basin extends well into southeastern Ma., so these points are found in both RI and Ma. Hope this helps.....

                  Again, these are regarded as a merging of Susquehanna/Orient/Small Stem styles. They do not display the typical Orient Fishtail basal configuration....
                  Last edited by CMD; 02-09-2020, 08:54 AM.
                  Rhode Island

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                  • #10
                    I know where the site is in Kingston where they found these points..it's a pretty interesting area to explore..
                    Last edited by TSUMS; 02-04-2017, 04:56 PM.

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                    • #11
                      CMD, thanks for dropping the knowledge on us! From the looks of it, mine are not Orient Stemmed, maybe Squib Stemmed. But this is exactly why I posted the question. But, seeing your photos and the ones in the articles really helped me get a grasp on what they actually look like. Thanks again.

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                      • #12
                        Looks2 much, yes I would guess Squib. Stemmed for your quartz point, because quartz is the most common lithic for those points, and Greene points are seldom made of quartz.
                        Rhode Island

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                        • #13
                          Besides the quartz, that sure is different material than I get here in SD
                          South Dakota

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