Bison Skull with Calf Creek in it.

[spanky]

For some of you if you have never seen this picture. Was on PBS and think they did some x-rays on it to see what it looked like. Does anyone remember if they thought it was for real or a set up. I CRS. :rolf:




They said the other point was found close to the skull.

[11KBP]

spanky wrote:

For some of you if you have never seen this picture. Was on PBS and think they did some x-rays on it to see what it looked like. Does anyone remember if they thought it was for real or a set up. I CRS.   :rolf:
 

  It's the real deal Dan.

[spanky]

Thanks Dick, I just couldn't remember what they said on the show.

[11KBP]

spanky wrote:

Thanks Dick, I just couldn't remember what they said on the show.

  Here's a little better information Dan.

http://www.ou.edu/cas/archsur/Skull/skull.htm

and

http://www.ou.edu/cas/archsur/Skull/movies.htm

[spanky]

Thanks for the info Dick, I've seen that somewhere else but CRS.

[JoshinMO]

Good topic. Show is history detectives and this was really an interesting episode. Think The guy who discovered it (ken?) Donated it to museum.

[Neanderthal]

A few remarks about this piece. Firstly, it is legit. Kim Holt did find it, but he didn't find it where he said he did on that show - he didn't want to give away his real location, lol. Kim donated it to the Sam Noble MONH in OKC before he died.
This particular piece did raise a lot of eyebrows because it made people assume that Calf Creek points were atlatl darts instead of mostly knives.  They were both. I'm not convinced that the point embedded in that skull was a projectile though, it's possible it fell upon it or it was a defensive measure. Not sure. I've been meaning to try and recreate that scene for a few years now, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
The second point shown Calf Creek / Andice wasn't found real close to where Kim found that skull. It was found by Neil Gore (I know exactly where, but won't share those details). I cast that point, Neil sold it to Richard Morrison.

[SDhunter]

I don't plan to disagree with the possibility of that happening,  but for the life of me,
I don't see how it could have happened.  I wouldn't have thought that a stone spear or dart would
have enough force to penetrate a buffalo skull like that.  Did they on the show try and recreate how it could be done?    I've cracked open a lot of bovine skulls in my job,  and it takes a sharp hatchet with quite a bit of force.  Just curious.   Gary

[11KBP]

Neanderthal wrote:

  I'm not convinced that the point embedded in that skull was a projectile though, it's possible it fell upon it or it was a defensive measure. Not sure. I've been meaning to try and recreate that scene for a few years now, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

  Matt, I would be very interested in how you might recreate that scene if you ever get around to it.
If not a projectile then are you suggesting a hand-held knife penetrated the horn core?
Obviously the angle of entry is unusual but panicked animals in an arroyo bison trap would be a good cause for animals to be in unusual or unnatural positions. I am voting projectile point until you convince me otherwise. 

[rmartin]

I had seen the TV show some time ago and was aware that this was considered the real deal. I can't tell you how many times I have looked at these pics though. Matt, I really hope you can recreate the situation. I would really like to see the results! Thanks for posting it Spanky.

[cgode]

That has to be one of the coolest things I've seen found. I'm with Gary, a stone point penetrating a skull like that is certainly incredible to say the least. I would have thought the stone would have shattered on impact thereby absorbing all the kinetic energy needed to penetrate a skull like that. then again, what the heck do I know?

[Neanderthal]

[QUOTE]11KBP wrote:

I'm not convinced that the point embedded in that skull was a projectile though, it's possible it fell upon it or it was a defensive measure. Not sure. I've been meaning to try and recreate that scene for a few years now, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

  Matt, I would be very interested in how you might recreate that scene if you ever get around to it.
If not a projectile then are you suggesting a hand-held knife penetrated the horn core?
Obviously the angle of entry is unusual but panicked animals in an arroyo bison trap would be a good cause for animals to be in unusual or unnatural positions. I am voting projectile point until you convince me otherwise. 
  Me and Darren Dirksen have actually planned on doing this for quite some time now, using fresh bison skulls (which we do have access to) and freshly knapped "Calf Creek" points.
  The problem I am having is that the Calf Creek is embedded in the most dense part of the skull - base of the horn core. I'm wondering if the bison impaled itself on the point - maybe a defensive move for the native. I am just having a hard time accepting that this came from a propelled projectile. I could be wrong, experimentation often helps to answer a lot of questions!

[JoshinMO]

Tried adding link to show but they arent active now. I do remember during show they could tell by the "scans" the bison was alive when the point entered the skull so its got to be alive Matt lol.

[eagle eye]

I've seen the episode of History Detectives as well. pretty awesome artifact. I know they took xrays of it and found that the point was shattered inside the skull but obviously had enough strength to be driven into it.

[Jeffery Howle]

That is amazing