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Copper Culture Knife with Carved Ivory Handle

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  • #16
    Here's the last photo. Much better images

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    • #17
      That is a beautiful combination piece 6.
      Is the handle ivory?
      Click image for larger version

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      It may just be the angle.
      This side looks bird like to me in this pic.
      Click image for larger version

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      Bruce
      In life there are losers and finders. Which one are you?

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      • #18
        Thanks 2nd. I believe it to be Ivory. It's the same piece I posted earlier. But Thought I would post some better up close photos so folks could see the carving and natural patina from all angles. It's gonna be my daily carry if things don't settle down in this crazy world. It'll scare the Dickens outta most unsavory characters!

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        • #19
          Yeah I think the handle defiantly shows Eagle likeness. Those are defiantly feathers and the pommel area seems to represent a birds head. I have scoured the Internet for Early ethnic/ cultural carvings from other countries that resembles the style of this,and came up empty. The two small interesting diamond patterns on it are unique. I found a few very early Ojibwa Knife sheaths in Museum photographs that incorporated that artfull design. The search goes on. Makes it fun!

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          • #20
            I think both pieces are awesome individually and are each interesting in there own ways... However the two pieces coupled just don't do it for me. My guess is whoever put them together in more recent times had little appreciation for either or just didn't understand the historical value of the pieces individually...
            Josh (Ky/Tn collector)

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            • #21
              I agree ! If done in relatively recent times. Why on earth would you match up these together. Just doesn't make sense. You would think someone would match up an old Steel Blade to a Ivory handle like this. That's often done. Pretty crazy.

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              • #22
                I'm pretty sure that those are not feathers and that the pommel is not an eagle. They appear to me to be acanthus leaves... a very common decorative element in most periods but which enjoyed a resurgence in popularity for non-architectural use from the end of the Renaissance through to Victorian times (17th to 19th Centuries).
                I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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                • #23
                  Well I researched "Achantus Leaf" Motif carvings for an hour. Encyclopedia definitions. Photos from web sites. Antique items etc. Brittanica and all definitions state. Stylized ornamental motif based on a Mediterranian plant with jagged leaves! Dating back to Roman times. Used primarily in architectural columns and furniture for centuries it appears. I don't see the jagged Achantus leaf styling on this Ivory handle. The knife handles Pommel would be considered a Birds beak or birds head pommel in Antique knife classification. And the Carving that flows into the birds head pommel appears to be a Feather. I have scoured for hours 40+ searching for photos, collections, websites, Antique auction results. Knife collectors inventory, antique Cutlery everything from all regions Cultures going back to 15th century. The Handle is Marine Ivory. To me after all my research. The carving has the feel and look of Folk carvings from colonial times. Maybe very early Whaling era. And I don't rule out native Coastal with possible Dutch or Scandinavia even English influence. I have added a few photos of this knife next to a American War of 1812" Naval Dirk with carved marine Ivory hilt/ handle. Like I stated from the get go. It's somewhat of a mystery. But it has opened the door. I have Discoverd and learned so much of the history of Great Lakes ,Atlantic coastal and woodland tribes pre Contact period and Early European contact times. The 1500-early 1800s were quite an Epic ordeal for Natives and the people from many shores that landed. Check out "Dan Weiskotten's Patterns of Iroquois Burial". I had a difficult time getting through the read. My G grandmother came off the Six Nation Reserve in Ontario. But I read the entire article. For Artifact folks, it will reveal some interesting things but shock you as to some of the stuff that went on in the 1600s to early mid 1800s.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Six nations son View Post
                    Well I researched "Achantus Leaf" Motif carvings for an hour. Encyclopedia definitions. Photos from web sites. Antique items etc. Brittanica and all definitions state. Stylized ornamental motif based on a Mediterranian plant with jagged leaves! Dating back to Roman times. Used primarily in architectural columns and furniture for centuries it appears. I don't see the jagged Achantus leaf styling on this Ivory handle. The knife handles Pommel would be considered a Birds beak or birds head pommel in Antique knife classification. And the Carving that flows into the birds head pommel appears to be a Feather. I have scoured for hours 40+ searching for photos, collections, websites, Antique auction results. Knife collectors inventory, antique Cutlery everything from all regions Cultures going back to 15th century. The Handle is Marine Ivory. To me after all my research. The carving has the feel and look of Folk carvings from colonial times. Maybe very early Whaling era. And I don't rule out native Coastal with possible Dutch or Scandinavia even English influence. I have added a few photos of this knife next to a American War of 1812" Naval Dirk with carved marine Ivory hilt/ handle. Like I stated from the get go. It's somewhat of a mystery. But it has opened the door. I have Discoverd and learned so much of the history of Great Lakes ,Atlantic coastal and woodland tribes pre Contact period and Early European contact times. The 1500-early 1800s were quite an Epic ordeal for Natives and the people from many shores that landed. Check out "Dan Weiskotten's Patterns of Iroquois Burial". I had a difficult time getting through the read. My G grandmother came off the Six Nation Reserve in Ontario. But I read the entire article. For Artifact folks, it will reveal some interesting things but shock you as to some of the stuff that went on in the 1600s to early mid 1800s.

                    Well, if you look harder and in the right places, you'll find even better resemblances than this:

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                    Did you note also that the dagger you posted above is mounted in a symmetrical handle? That would be the usual arrangement for a knife blade which has two cutting edges. Your copper blade is also "dagger-form" with a cutting edge on both sides and the asymmetrical handle is inappropriate for that. Asymmetrical handles usually go with blades that have a single cutting edge. Not always, but usually.

                    At the end of the day, it's going to be whatever you want it to be I suppose.
                    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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