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some said bear effigys? I think not...what are these? very rare indeed.

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  • some said bear effigys? I think not...what are these? very rare indeed.

    these were found in southern Utah on a private property loaded with ancient evidence. Two were found at the same place, same time. the other two were found within a few miles...by two seperate people, quite some time ago. They always believed they had bear effigys, but as I hold the two I found...I feel something different...the 'tips' of this local ironstone are polished smooth...which is difficult to do. My diamond drill bits turn to dust on this stuff! the edges have been skillfully knapped into this shape. Could this be part of a loom? or a piece of a larger technology?
    Our area is loaded with artifacts...metates..points...pottery...etc....but something like these have never been found. A local mason believes they were all made by the same person at the same time.
    People have lived here for over 10,000 years. Any ideas?

  • #2
    I would agree, that they aren't bears, and they do resemble parts of a loom. I don't know much about looms, but you may be on to something. Others more knowledgeable will know. Thanks for sharing
    South Dakota

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    • #3
      found in south central utah on private property rich in ancient evidence of occupation. made from a local ironstone. skillfully knapped.
      I drew in what I believe the original shape would have been. tips have been polished smooth...which is hard w this stone.
      black n white pics are from two other local collections..found nearby..but years ago.
      locals said bear effigys...I believe...loom? or for seperation of seeds and shells on a metate?

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      • #4
        IDK but looks like they could be stones for loom weaving?
        Look to the ground for it holds the past!

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        • #5
          thing is...I can't find anything to reference it...but I think so too...but how? and what would the loom look like? how would they be propped...etc...the ????s. I love it.and hate it. thanks for your response.

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          • #6
            Interesting items!

            Please don't post the same items in multiple parts of the forum. I have merged your two posts. I have also brought your pictures up to full size. in the second post. There's a tutorial explaining how to do that yourself here:
            http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/new-member-area-gc25/tutorials-how-do-i…-gc130/167428-how-to-add-pictures-to-a-post
            I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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            • #7
              Very interesting items. I have seen hoe like implements made of the same lithic stone which where used to cut Agave. That tabular iron stone was probably easy to shape. I wonder if these were tools used to process Yucca and Agave. I have seen Agave knives and they have comb like serrations but much finer than what these show. What ever work they performed it was rough and repetitive labor to smooth those stones like that.
              TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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              • journeyman
                journeyman commented
                Editing a comment
                thanks for the response.
                I love the questions that arise with these. Local joke here where I live is....you can't spit without hitting an archeological sight. Many ancient villagesights abound...but NEVER has anyone found something like these. They will make their way into the local Anasazi Museum when we can actually figure them out. Too cool a find.

            • #8
              I would call them “denticulates”, for which the general archaeological definition is “… a stone tool that displays one or more edges that are worked into multiple notched shapes, much like the toothed edge of a saw. Indeed, these tools might have been used as saws, more likely for meat processing than for wood. It is possible, however, that some or all of these notches were used for smoothing wooden shafts or for similar purposes” [ref. World Heritage Encyclopedia].

              Most cultures around the world have them. They’re typically Palaeolithic (especially Neanderthal) tools in Europe. In North America they seem to relate to all time periods. There are small ones with closely spaced sharp “teeth” which may have seen use as saws for hard materials such as bone/antler or starting grooves in wood and larger ones with more widely spaced and less sharp “teeth” of uncertain purpose. There are numerous other possible uses such as processing food materials, shredding plant fibres for use as cordage and scraping wood or bark to generate tinder for fire-making. Some are also multifunctional, with more than one type of cutting or scraping edge.

              There’s a nice one on Ebay at the moment (from the seller “syljr” in Georgia) pictured below. The vendor describes it as “Rare North American Indian Denticulate Stone Tool - Late Woodland Period C. 500AD-1000. Multifunctional tool- used as a saw in food processing and multiple notches were used for rounding surfaces like arrow shafts; the large notches could be used for rounding spear of axe shafts and the tips of the notched used for inscribing. In excellent condition. 7 ½ x 5 inches.”

              Click image for larger version

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              Assuming it’s genuine, I think I would pretty much agree with that description, although I don’t know how the dating has been arrived at or whether they are truly “rare”. Certainly, the smaller ones with sharp, closely space teeth are more common… like this one:


              Click image for larger version

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              [Picture from Artifacts of Kansas website]
              I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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              • journeyman
                journeyman commented
                Editing a comment
                cool...getting closer to the answer.
                thank you so much for the response.

            • #9
              I am still leaning towards a loom device...though I have loom experience....I'm not sure how this would be used. Also...w the wear...they might have been used for seed sorting on a metate or something similar.....still pondering...and wondering...

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              • #10
                Just a thought about it being part of a loom? My personal feeling is rough stone in a loom would be too abrasive on the cordage.
                TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                • #11
                  They remind me, loosely, of dentate stones used in pottery decoration.....
                  Rhode Island

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                  • journeyman
                    journeyman commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I like that! the local museum will let us examine their basement of stuff....I will have to look closely at the pottery designs! thanks! still pondering....

                • #12
                  Still love a mystery
                  South Dakota

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                  • #13
                    guess I was thinking more of a weaving comb. The cordage would have been a little thicker, and wood may have not worked. Just a guess.
                    here is a link http://navajoweaver.com/blog/the-too...l-combs-forks/
                    Look to the ground for it holds the past!

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                    • #14
                      I wonder if they are finger groves that had been intentionally smoothed to protect the hands . The other side may have been for cutting??? What does the edge indicated by the red arrows look like in close up? Click image for larger version

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                      TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                      • journeyman
                        journeyman commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I will post some pics....the edges are knapped w skill...which is a hard and different skill for this stone than regular flint knapping.

                      • journeyman
                        journeyman commented
                        Editing a comment
                        also...the side opposite of the comb isn't very sharp like flint would be, so not used for cutting...but the side w the combs has been so smoothed on the tips.
                        could this be for stripping fur off elk or bighorn sheep? the museum didn't have any pottery w 3d designs ...or anything resembling these.

                    • #15

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