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I found this puzzler today walking a creek in southern New England. I'm having a tough time telling if it is a heavily worn dalton point, that would be missing an ear, or just a tip with a break that is misleading! Any and all opinions are greatly appreciated and would help me a great deal! I'm still fairly new to this addiction, and I would love hearing from all of you. Thank you! -PH
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Can’t find em sitting on the couch; unless it’s in a field -
Coming from new England, I don't think this is a Dalton. Daltons are occasionally found in the northeast, but are made of some of the better quality cherts. And they are usually serrated, with a prominent hafting area, with basal thinnnng, and often short flutes.. Here's one I just got in, ( next to the Lost Lake ),a more Classic Dalton with the above noted hafting area, and serrated blade to the tip. This one is so heavily patinated, it's hard to type the material. It's a creamy chert with blue inclusions, possibly Delaware chert. This one is from Mongomery Co., N.Y. It has an ancient tip impact fracture. I think yours would fall into an Archaic, elongated triangle, possibly quartzite.
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I am looking at a Paleoindian book right now
and the pics in the book look like a Dalton .
Goggle it for your self satisfaction . These experts on here will chime in and let you know for sure .
That is a great find whatever it is . It's the chase
right ? I am a just starting myself
TamComment
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There are thousands of point types, and a large percentage of these will be very similar looking, in shape. So then to get specific, you look at the region the point was found in, the material, and then the flaking style on the point itself. The point may look Daltonish, but coming from new England gives it a little chance, and then not having the distinct type of flaking that Daltons have, gives it even more less of a chance, and then going to the material, it's a very rough type of stone, resembling quartzite, and that doesn't help. So by process of elimination, it's only Dalton looking, but not a distinct Dalton. Mostly, it's missing any serrations that are seen on 99% of Dalton points.
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I agree with Paul that the point does not appear to be a Dalton. And I say that regardless of where it came from.Comment
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I agree with the others. This doesn't look like any Dalton I've seen, although admit I've only seen a few. Neat find though. Can't tell in the photos but are you sure it's quartzite? Maybe it's the patina. Just asking...Child of the tidesComment
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Boy that's a rough water worn point. Still a good find.Comment
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It might be a Hardaway dalton..but usually they have small notches...I know people who have found them.here in new.england...Comment
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I am not sure of the type but it is a very nice find. Often that material just does not weather well. Hard to see flake scars and half the base is missing. I am pretty sure Charlie has some points like that perhaps he will see this and chime in.TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-PostComment
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Thank you everyone for your responses! I love learning from and with all of you. It's definitely a very water worn point. Hard to put a type to it after all I suppose lol! As you said it's the thrill of finding it.Can’t find em sitting on the couch; unless it’s in a fieldComment
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Very nice. Thanks for sharingSouth DakotaComment
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According to Boudreau, the "Dalton tradition is yet to be demonstrated in New England." I did find a base at a drawn down pond last Winter that Dr. Gramly identified as a probable Dalton, and I have what he considered to be a Dalton drill. Boudreau also states "the Hardaway-Dalton type in New England, with the exception of serrations and vague shoulders, does not, as a group, resemble points of the Dalton tradition. The New England "Hardaway-Dalton" has straight to conveys blade edges that are erose or serrated. Bases are ground and moderately to markedly concave. As a result of resharpening, the haft element is often wider then the blade."
It's just very confusing here in southern New England. Boudreau illustrated 15 Hardaway Side Notch points from New England, including one from my Early Archaic site, where I also found what Gramly felt was a Dalton drill. But, to my eyes, many of Boudreau's Hardaway points look more like Hardaway-Dalton's, and his Hardaway-Dalton's don't look much like classic examples of that type at all. The problem is that these types have not been found in an excavated datable context here, and if and when that happens, they will receive the new type names they really need to have.
The first photo here is an exhibit at the Robbins Museum of the Massachusetts Archaeological Society. Note the slight ears/notches on one of the points in the bottom row. Some of these examples are included in the Hardaway-Dalton section of both the first edition and unpublished 2nd edition of Boudreau's New England typology. I think the point that started this thread does fit well with that group. But notice they do not look much like Hardaway-Dalton's from NC.(see comment #14 below) The second pic is a point from my collection, from Ma. It too is the type we call Hardaway-Dalton, with tiny ears. The 3rd and 4 photo is a drill I found at an Early Archaic site that Gramly felt certain was in the Daltonesque family. And the last photo is a point from my Early Archaic site in RI, that Boudreau considered a New England Hardaway Side Notch and which he included as one of 15 examples in the expanded, but still unpublished, edition of his typology. Others of his Hardaway examples seem much more like Hardaway-Dalton's from the SE, so it is really confusing to me. Unfortunately I can't reproduce those here due to copyright restrictions on Boudreau's first edition typology.
Gramly told me my drill was likely related to a vee-base Dalton drill(Hill Phase). The point that began this thread does look, as TSUMS suggested, like it might be a New England Hardway-Dalton, especially as I look at the dozens Boudreau illustrates in his unpublished revised typology. But, just remember they do not look much like classic Hardaway-Dalton's at all, are undated in New England, and they really need their own unique type name. And to confuse even more, several of Boudreau's illustrated Hardaway's look more like Hardaway-Dalton's then his Hardaway-Dalton's! So, my head is spinning, lol.....Last edited by CMD; 03-30-2017, 05:51 PM.Rhode IslandComment
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The only other monkey wrench entry I could throw out there is just to mention there are long, narrow versions of the Brewerton Eared Triangle point, sometimes with only a single, very slight ear, and in general the ears can be as slight as imaginable. Here is likely one such Brewerton, made of an almost sandstone-like water worn quartzite. Just seems the more concave the base, the more I would lean toward an earlier triangle then the Brewertons....
All told, push come to shove, I think Pointhead's point might likely be an example of what Boudreau typed as a New England variant of Hardaway-Dalton. Undated, but assumed to be earliest Archaic, so a great and rare find. But I certainly can be mistaken as the whole subject is murky and unfortunately we can no longer turn to Boudreau for guidance. He was my mentor and I miss him for sure.....
Rhode IslandComment
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"He was my mentor and I miss him for sure....." CMD Just as we are lucky to have you as a mentor on this site. Thank you for all the effort you put into my mystery point. Potentially a Hardaway-Dalton! New England type lol. I enjoy learning the history of these points, and learning about those who have studied them before us. Being a school teacher, my whole life has been learning and teaching to this point. No pun intended. I look forward to learning as much as I can and someday helping people decipher their own "point mysteries"Last edited by Pointhead; 03-30-2017, 01:24 PM.Can’t find em sitting on the couch; unless it’s in a fieldComment
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Thank you, but, trust me, if I'm the mentor, we are in trouble. Paul Frey(pkfrey) is far more knowledgable and experienced then I am in Northeast typology. The only reason I differ with him here is because, for a few types, New England is just different. And, as much as I looked up to Jeff Boudreau, I differ with him in his use of the type names Hardaway Side Notch, and Hardaway-Dalton. I know he understood they needed their own unique names, and that that would need to wait until they were found in a datable context in New England. But I honestly believe it would have been better to use a more generic name until then, such as, in the case of our Hardaway Side Notch points, perhaps Hardaway-like or Early Side Notch. Our Hardaway-Dalton's perhaps are better called Dalton-like triangles.
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Check out the different appearances of Hardaway-Dalton points from their heartland, North Carolina, photo 1, and then the type Boudreau chose to call Hardaway-Dalton points from southern New England, in photo 2. Photo 3 and 4 looks like a Hardaway-Dalton and is from RI. I got that one from Hoss. In photo 5, 3 points that Boudreau ID'd as Hardaway-Dalton's. My wife found the first 2, left and center, and JMatt's wife found the one on the right. In photo. 6 and 7, closeup of the center example. All very confusing, as our points need their own type name. Only the one in photo 3 and 4 might pass for the type if it had been found in North Carolina. And yet, that one would have fit into Boudreau's samples of Hardaway Side Notch! That's how confusing it is, and one reason why I prefer to call them Early Side Notch points when found in New England, rather then Hardaway.
Last edited by CMD; 03-30-2017, 04:32 PM.Rhode IslandComment
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Pointhead, Bill Taylor of the Massachusetts Archaeological Society was among the first to suggest a certain type of narrow triangle, often serrated, was an Early Archaic style, and which he called Dalton-like triangles. These were the narrow triangles that Jeff Boudreau chose to use the type name Hardaway-Dalton for. As I mentioned in comment 13.1 above, I disagree with Jeff using that term. Especially because some of the 15 Hardaway Side Notch points he included in his sample for that type look more like Hardaway-Dalton's then his Hardaway-Dalton's do. Here, in this article by Bill Taylor, he just referred to them as Dalton-like triangles. It's the article beginning "Narrow triangular points..." at the link below. Just more examples of what your point might be. The two my wife found, seen in comment #14 above, are erose/serrated, but they don't all show serrations. I'm not certain that's what you have. I am no authority, and should never be so regarded! But, New England is different. I just think Boudreau would have spared us much confusion if he used more generic names until/unless these points are finally found in context in New England. It is very confusing to use type names from outside our region, and when collectors from those regions disagree, they cannot be blamed.
Rhode IslandComment
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I don't necessarily view you as the end all be all of typology, but I always appreciate your thoughtful feedback. It's hard for me to imagine the time and effort you have put into learning about this stuff. And for me that's something I look up to. I'm new to point hunting and I'm just a young guy. -call me ben. I think there are some sites in New England with much to be learned from them. I'm hopeful that returning to this creek might yield some further answers. They all tell part of the story!
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