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  • Tell Me what This Is. Only one like it I have.

    Tell Me what This Is. Only one like it I have.
    Posted by [greywolf22]

    Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2011 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.

    Tell Me what This Is. Only one like it I have. Was found within 10ft of where a Clovis out of the same material was found in TN. Edges are worked. Uniface both sides.

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    Jack


    Posted by [rmartin]
    Nice uniface scraper Jack. Looks like it could be paleo and since it was found near clovis it probably is. With a bevel like that it was made for some heavy duty scraping. Nice piece. Ray.

    Posted by [Neanderthal]
    Duckbill scraper. Although people claim they were used by early cultures, I have yet to see evidence of it. The core technology along doesn't support the theory as it was used by so many cultures in different areas. We find them here on very late sites, primarily proto-historic. I'm not saying some cannot be older, I would imagine they were a popular tool used by many cultures over the years.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

  • #2
    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Martin
    That is what I think it is to. It looks like when it was spalled out it had such a twist to it it could not be made into a point and thus they made a uniface scrpaer from it. I sure like to hold this one in my hand.
    Jack


    Posted by [turkeytail]
    Neanderthal wrote:
    Duckbill scraper. Although people claim they were used by early cultures, I have yet to see evidence of it. The core technology along doesn't support the theory as it was used by so many cultures in different areas. We find them here on very late sites, primarily proto-historic. I'm not saying some cannot be older, I would imagine they were a popular tool used by many cultures over the years.

    If it aint broke...dont fix it. Nice piece Jack!


    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Matt
    I have a few artifacts papered by Dwain Rogers as Paleo scrapers that are uniface, but are not in this duckbill style.
    Here is one papered as Paleo by Rogers. Bill German also said that is what he would call it. It was not found in context with other Paleo material. Found in Coryell Co., TX near the small town of Grove.

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    Jack
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

    Comment


    • #3
      Posted by [itwasluck]
      Very nice looks fluted on the end. But I might be wrong on that. If you find a fluted peice is it Paleo? Or did other tribes use the fluted tools as well? I have been finding some fluted peices so I wondering about it.

      Posted by [pkfrey]
      You will see what appears to be flutes on the one face of alot of Paleo uniface scrapers, because of the core and blade technology used in creating these blades. When one blade was struck off a core, in would leave a large concave depression on the core. Then when a second blade was removed, that blade would retain this concave , flake removal scar, appearing to be fluted. It wasn't, however, intentionaly fluted.
      Paul RS Frey

      Posted by [Neanderthal]
      It's a common misconception for collectors to believe that paleo-Indians had a monopoly on core technology - they didn't. Many different cultures employed core & blade (Hopewell, Black Sands, Toyah, Neosho Focus, Fort Coffee and a myriad of others). The same goes for outre-passe flaking, fluting, square knives and other lithic technology that some believe were utilized only by the paleo people.
      IMO, we can blame this primarily on people having too narrow of focus areas. For instance, if someone studies just Kirk points and nothing else, then they have no comparative database to draw from. When they see a Marcos, Elko or Pelican Lake, they are most likely going to associate them somehow with a Kirk. It's a case of missing the forest for the trees. They are doing them self a disservice by not forming comparative data.

      Posted by [greywolf22]
      Matt
      Thanks for the overview. If you would teach a course I would come.
      Jack

      Posted by [Hoss]
      anyone know what material that is? I bought a box of blade years ago at an auction because there was a banded slate Banner from Ohio in the mix and a couple good points and this was in there. Just a uviface flake knife I am sure but the material is so similar to yours jack. Unfortunately mine came with no provenience. Just a box of about 160 artifacts from an old NJ collection. I know this stuff was not from NJ. I purchased in 97 and the stuff had india ink and pencil on some from 1906 through 1911.

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      Incase you can't see th edge work here is a side view!

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      I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

      Comment


      • #4
        Posted by [pkfrey]
        The material is Coshocton blue/black chert, one of the three varieties of the Upper Mercer flint group. The other two varieties are Coshocton gray/brown, and Nellie chert, which is a dull, silvery/gray color, often having parallel lines running through it. Paul
        Paul RS Frey


        Posted by [Hoss]
        Thank you Paul! Helps me narrow that artifact down a bit. Isn't Nellie Chert similar to Onandaga?

        Posted by [greywolf22]
        Paul
        Thanks for the information on material. do you know how far did this material traveled?
        Here is some more information on it:


        Link no longer working

        Jack


        Posted by [turkeytail]
        Hate to hijack your thread Jack but I found this today and it fits into this thread. Skunked at the new spot so I decided to hit an old spot. Not much for a 5 mile walk! Unifaced scrapper-knife, thought it was a flake so I just picked it up. The picture is were I found it, found a few points here in the past.
        5 straight hunts without getting skunked! :cheer:

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        Posted by [greywolf22]
        Mark
        There you go. I must be contagious. Nice find. That looks like a Duckbill Scraper.
        Jack

        Posted by [turkeytail]
        Jack, I have only found 3 other points here (all broke) but the funny thing is I have never found a single rock or even pebble here....blow sand.

        Posted by [greywolf22]
        Mark
        Best time to looks for artifacts is after a big sand storm. Or dust storm if you are from west Texas. Lots of great artifacts were found in the dust bowl days.
        Jack
        I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

        Comment


        • #5
          Posted by [pkfrey]
          Hi Jack, To answer a previous question from hoss, Nellie chert is somewhat similar in color to onondaga, but Onondaga is more randomly mottled with blueish inclusions, as Nellie shows striated bands of darker material. Incidently, a good way to authentic Ashtabulas, which are made from the Nellie cherts, is to see which way the banding faces. Im sure there may be the rare exception, but in 99.999% of all good Ashtabulas, the striations will run horizontally,from edge to edge, rather than lateral, from tip to base. The prehistoric flintknappers found that the flint is stronger when flaked with the banding be horizontal. The Coshocton cherts were used all over the northeast, Pa., NY and up, NJ, etc. It saw heavy use during Paleo times with the fluted points and Agate Basins. For some reason though, there was very little to no use at all during the Archaic, slight use during the Transitional, and thenduring the Early and Middle Woodland, it showed heavy use again in the Adenas, Hopewells, and Jacks Reef.
          Paul RS Frey

          Posted by [greywolf22]
          Paul
          Thanks for the information. Nice education.
          Jack

          Posted by [ZmajSnoshaj]
          That is one neat scraper Jack (at least I would have used it for one). The material has a neat marbleized look to it. Could this have been some kind of fire starter like a strike-a-light? Maybe these were also preforms for a specific point type? *shrugs*
          Great thread and thanks for sharing!
          ~Noah

          Posted by [greywolf22]
          Noah
          Its a scraper, fits very nice in the hand. I think if it was used as a fire starter it would be more beat up.
          Jack
          I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

          Comment

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