If a Mod can help me out, put in red letters "fake on the pics. Lots of things to look for here. The Hardin like things are totally wrong in Manufacture. Basal treatment is all wrong and way to thick. The Hardin type thing in the handle I crudle made is heat treat which is totally wrong for the type. The Dickson was guilty by association.
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I hope I don't bore you with a story. Back in the late 80's I was buying and selling lots of artifacts. I got a call from a farmer to view two collections "of personal finds", his and his brother's who owned neighboring farms in a real good area. As I looked up the stuff over, I set these aside. When I made them an offer, I told them I did want these because the were Fake. They said they had been told that before and had bought them so they gave them to me. Perino shot down the Dove saying there were too many fresh hinges( the little bit of flake that remains). Jackson shot down the Snyders. So I took most of them and buried them in the ground for about a year. Then, froze and thawed them in water for weeks. You should have seen the hinges that popped off and it broke the Dickson. Finally, put them in a coffee can full of some vile ingredients for a year. I am sure these would not scope, but sure would fool a lot of folks
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It really does, doesn't it? :lol: This is one I would have thought to be real, due to my inexperience, had I not been told otherwise. Trickery could very well have got me here if he had told me it was authentic. I better not be purchasing any artifacts! Sticking to my fields and hoping to find authentic points of my own.greywolf22 wrote:
Looks like they were having some fun making that one.
Jack
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Actually, Pam, in some instances it could be illegal but that might be a stretch. I do recall the the first Postal Mail fraud case involved fake artifacts. And no, I wasn't around when it happened, lol. Some one please correct me if I am wrong. I cannot believe I missed this thread the first time. I think I was lurking then. I applaud you Jack for the opener and some great responses. I really feel compelled to add more and will as soon as I can get some pics. Ray
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Well, now that's a heap of information. This is a flintknapped piece I purchased. It should be a law, IMO, with consequences, if caught selling fakery...with the knowledge of doing so. The flintknapped fakeries should all be marked as this one is. There are some beautiful flintknapped pieces, but now I feel guilty for purchasing them. Never gonna happen with the law thought...but this is my favorite knapped piece for that mere fact that it is marked!!!
This piece was posted under an earlier topic.
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Lots of great advise in this thread! A longer read but well worth it. Thank you all for the excellent advise.
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True...there has always been fakery when interest and money becomes involved. Human nature.
On a more positive note;
About the best advice I could give for 'early oners' is to please take all the time you need...learn what the heck you are interested in...and proceed with caution...very slowly.
A good decent fake free collection comes with much effort and time and no-one does it overnight. [Unless the've been willing to lose money and make huge mistakes.,,and...there are many to help you do that!]
Most state sponsered shows...whether G.I.R.S or C.S.A.S. watch fairly carefully and have enough ol timers' about to give free opinions...plus the fact that anything sold has a money back gurantee that holds true.
Cover your ass and KNOW what you are doing...less you become disillusioned with something that really can be quite the pleasant passion that it should be.
Start with your particular areas. That narrows things down quite a bit. G 10s are extremely rare...so be extra careful with the perfection aspect. It doesn't happen very often! Try instead a nice collection of typology...in your area! If you get lucky with some perfection...whether through finds or shows...rejoice and be glad in your endeavors. Bottom line; It's a lifetime of careful study. If you want to do it in 'quick time'and have it all yesterday, you'll most likely be disappointed.
Relax...take your time...learn all you can...join your state society and have a good hobby/passion...without the 'paranoia' of not knowing...or knowing too late.
Just a few thoughts...
Cheers...happy hunting...
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Nothing is more frustrating to us as enthusiasts than "fakery of artifactery". But it is something we have to take in stride, and not take personal. Unscrupulous people counterfeit everything. Money, jewelry, clothing, heck, even the writers plagiarize. Here's what I look out for: 1. Someone who is just dying to sell something (If someone who is serious and knows what they have, they aren't going to try to talk you into buying it)
2. A person with a crazy amount of awesome, grade 9 or 10 pieces (Even long time collectors have very few pieces that are pristine) 3. A person that only has high grade pieces (for every pristine piece a collector has, they usually have 100 field grade)
Now, conversely, I am inclined to believe SOME of the people who use the "my grandpa had it" story. The younger generation(s) are usually so worried about their lifestyle and keeping up with appearances (bad habits too) that they don't care about the history or nastalgia of relics. They only want to know how much they can get out of that stuff they found in grandma's jewelry box. Hard times have brought out some fakes, but it has also brought some really good pieces out that people have been sitting on. Right now is definately the market for a collector looking to buy.
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I've been selling indian artifacts on ebay for awhile now and have been making a pretty good living at it.Every so often I will see another ebayer selling artifacts that are not authentic but advertised authentic,which they dont last long on ebay.It's those people that we need to weed out.It also causes other's to not want to buy artifacts unless the pieces are coa.Its in any collectors best interest to have some kind of knowledge about fakery and to show/teach other collectors how do do the same.On another note,I was in a field last week and on the way to the field I told my girlfiend that I was gonna find me a serrated Dalton and sure enough,on the way out of the field there sat my first serrated Dalton.We both #$@% our pants.I truely believe the Indians spirits were looking out for me that day.
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Chuck, I don't know if that is always true. There are a lot of "altered" points out there under $50. If you sell 10 points for $50 it is as good as one for $500. Secondly, most people don't expect perfection out of the lower points so it is easier to slip one by that has been retipped or reshaped, and when received, it is usually accepted with less scrutiny. Now Field Grades I would think are relatively safe but any G-grades I would think would be potential candidates. I agree with you, the only real way is to pick it up yourself, although, I have heard of people salting fields with points they have made/altered to create providence to their finds. It is all about Greed.
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