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The Fakery of Artifactery - Scott Jones

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  • #16
    Great article, Jack. Thanks for posting it.
    It puts things in context very well. Besides for the guys that are out
    there purposely trying to deceive people, it is important for even the
    amateur, just interested in learning the primitive technologies, to understand
    how easy it is for their "experiments" to become part of, or mess with, the
    archaeological record. It is a huge problem, even if unintentional.
    How many people post pics on this site of artifacts that were in Grandpas
    collection and have no idea where it came from? It's been in Grandpas' collection
    so it MUST be real.
    I remember the Woody Blackwell/Jeb Taylor controversy. There were letters back and
    forth between the two published in different artifact magazines at the time.
    I also remember that it used to be sacrilege for knappers to sign or mark their
    modern made points. I am impressed by how many routinely mark their work today.
    But the damage has been done and continues to be done. It's all part of
    archaeology today.
    There's just nothing better than going for a walk and finding your own.
    Joe

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    • #17
      Mark - I understand what you're saying.  Money counterfiters don't mess around with $1 -and- $5 cause it would cost them more than they'd make.  They prefer the $50 -and- $100.  So, like Jon says, stick with what you know and who you trust and you should be alright.  Points under $100 are probably a safe bet especially if you buy from someone you know and trust.  That makes sense but with the money as tight as it is now, I'll stick with finding my own and maybe finding that one-of-a-kind.    ---Chuck
      Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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      • #18
        Bottom line guys, is whether on-line or at a show or even individual purchase. Have them give you a guarantee. I normally ask for 30 days so I can get the piece looked at. Only a few folks I buy off of that I don't worry about. But nothing is fool proof as Jack pointed out, educate yourself is indeed the best weapon.-Bill
          P.S. Mark have bought some stuff off of Whalen's, also like Robin Mcabee as well. Neither has done me wrong yet

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        • #19
          Joe
          I am for walking any time I can go out anf lay tracks down. Love those rocks.
          Jack

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          • #20
            gatherer here.it,s all about the rush i get when i,m rootin around i the dirt and WOW!! it,s a keeper. so my thoughts on the subject are those people that produce fakes are fakes themselves and can kiss my dirt diggin ass!!!  billy mac

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            • #21
              Really good article.  A couple of comments added.
              First, this is not the first pulse of fakes onto the market.  In the late 1800s to early 1900s, there was a big interest in indians and indian artifacts both in eastern US and in Europe, resulting in a huge production of fake artifacts for sale.  The "grey ghosts" of Texas are a great example.  As you indicated, once a monetary value is placed on the items, they increase.
              Second, like most arms races, when one site perfects a skill, the other finds a countermeasure.  There are knappers today that strive to fool the "experts".  It is a testiment to their achievement or skill in knapping.  The honest knappers now place an id on their work as a work of art.  The dishonest do their best to produce the perfect fake.
              Authenticators and other "experts" range from self-annointed to proficient, but even the most experienced and knowledgable can be wrong sometimes.  To complicate things further, most "experts" are so in a very narrow field or even region.  You don't want to send a point from SC to Texas for review, try to use someone local who has direct experience with the materials, flaking styles (which can vary regionally due to local preferences and material characteristics), etc.  Also, someone proficient in flint pieces may not be the best for greenstone or pottery.
              If you purchase points, and you use authenticators, remember they are human and when it comes down to it, are only giving you their opinion.  Hopefully, their decision is based on an educated opinion.  But they can be just as closed-minded or biased as any of us.  Point in case, I have sent personal finds in for information on typology to have them come back as not authentic or with modern alteration.  Now these came right out of the ground and the only alterations were a good bath in water with my old tooth brush, but they saw features that they USUALLY see associated with fakes and so made the judgement.  Should I be angry...no.  You have to remember they don't know you or the piece.  You have to take their decision as what it is -  an opinion.  And they will generally be conservative ones, because one mistake on their part can impact their business/reputation.
              So, just don't rely on their word as absolute.  Educate yourself and build your experience base.  Even then when you buy a point, it is a crap shoot and you take your chances.

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              • #22
                Chuck,  I don't know if that is always true.  There are a lot of "altered" points out there under $50.  If you sell 10 points for $50 it is as good as one for $500.  Secondly, most people don't expect perfection out of the lower points so it is easier to slip one by that has been retipped or reshaped, and when received, it is usually accepted with less scrutiny.  Now Field Grades I would think are relatively safe but any G-grades I would think would be potential candidates.  I agree with you, the only real way is to pick it up yourself, although, I have heard of people salting fields with points they have made/altered to create providence to their finds.  It is all about Greed.

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                • #23
                  Tim
                  Great add to. Thanks for sharing.
                  Jack

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                  • #24
                    I've been selling indian artifacts on ebay for awhile now and have been making a pretty good living at it.Every so often I will see another ebayer selling artifacts that are not authentic but advertised authentic,which they dont last long on ebay.It's those people that we need to weed out.It also causes other's to not want to buy artifacts unless the pieces are coa.Its in any collectors best interest to have some kind of knowledge about fakery and to show/teach other collectors how do do the same.On another note,I was in a field last week and on the way to the field I told my girlfiend that I was gonna find me a serrated Dalton and sure enough,on the way out of the field there sat my first serrated Dalton.We both #$@% our pants.I truely believe the Indians spirits were looking out for me that day.

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                    • #25
                      Nice find.
                      Jack

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                      • #26
                        Nothing is more frustrating to us as enthusiasts than "fakery of artifactery". But it is something we have to take in stride, and not take personal. Unscrupulous people counterfeit everything. Money, jewelry, clothing, heck, even the writers plagiarize.   Here's what I look out for: 1. Someone who is just dying to sell something (If someone who is serious and knows what they have, they aren't going to try to talk you into buying it)
                        2. A person with a crazy amount of awesome, grade 9 or 10 pieces (Even long time collectors have very few pieces that are pristine) 3. A person that only has high grade pieces (for every pristine piece a collector has, they usually have 100 field grade)
                        Now, conversely, I am inclined to believe SOME of the people who use the "my grandpa had it" story. The younger generation(s) are usually so worried about their lifestyle and keeping up with appearances (bad habits too) that they don't care about the history or nastalgia of relics. They only want to know how much they can get out of that stuff they found in grandma's jewelry box. Hard times have brought out some fakes, but it has also brought some really good pieces out that people have been sitting on. Right now is definately the market for a collector looking to buy.

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                        • #27
                          True...there has always been fakery when interest and money becomes involved. Human nature.
                          On a more positive note;
                          About the best advice I could give for 'early oners' is to please take all the time you need...learn what the heck you are interested in...and proceed with caution...very slowly.
                          A good decent fake free collection comes with much effort and time and no-one does it overnight. [Unless the've been willing to lose money and make huge mistakes.,,and...there are many to help you do that!]
                          Most state sponsered shows...whether G.I.R.S or C.S.A.S. watch fairly carefully and have enough ol timers' about to give free opinions...plus the fact that anything sold has a money back gurantee that holds true.
                          Cover your ass and KNOW what you are doing...less you become disillusioned with something that really can be quite the pleasant passion that it should be.
                          Start with your particular areas. That narrows things down quite a bit. G 10s are extremely rare...so be extra careful with the perfection aspect. It doesn't happen very often! Try instead a nice collection of typology...in your area! If you get lucky with some perfection...whether through finds or shows...rejoice and be glad in your endeavors. Bottom line; It's a lifetime of careful study. If you want to do it in 'quick time'and have it all yesterday, you'll most likely be disappointed.
                          Relax...take your time...learn all you can...join your state society and have a good hobby/passion...without the 'paranoia' of not knowing...or knowing too late.
                          Just a few thoughts...
                          Cheers...happy hunting...

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                          • #28
                            Dan
                            Very good solid info.
                            Thanks
                            Jack

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                            • #29
                              Lots of great advise in this thread! A longer read but well worth it. Thank you all for the excellent advise.
                              TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                              • #30
                                Well, now that's a heap of information.  This is a flintknapped piece I purchased.  It should be a law, IMO, with consequences, if caught selling fakery...with the knowledge of doing so.  The flintknapped fakeries should all be marked as this one is.  There are some beautiful flintknapped pieces, but now I feel guilty for purchasing them.  Never gonna happen with the law thought...but this is my favorite knapped piece for that mere fact that it is marked!!!
                                This piece was posted under an earlier topic.

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