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  • #31
    This has been a topic that following it has been rather unusual. Given that some of the points I have collected over the years, have been the "Bird Points" comming out in areas that also produce the larger points as well.
    The smaller points could be used as easily as any larger points and the available material may have limited them to making the smaller points.
    Hypothisis is a great way to create controversy.
    Here's something you may want to ponder......the larger points that are made from material that was difficult to accquire may not have been thrown at all.
    If anyone has been on a "Deer drive" you know that you hide near an area and wait till the other hunters force the deer into an area that you can get a clear shot at them.
    Now suppose you were an Indian and you were hidden in a crouched position near a trail in the bushes and the deer was comming your way.
    The undergrowth would not allow you to throw your weapon but you could "Lunge" and put your body weight into the thrust. You would penetrate deeply into the cavity of your prey release your weapon and allow your prey to run. All along the way every bush it passed every tree would strike the shaft of your weapon and the point inside your game would slice it's way through the innards. Ensuring a kill.
    This is not my smallest point but it is the last "Birdie" I found.
    Bone2stone

    It is a "Rock" when it's on the ground.
    It is a "Specimen" when picked up and taken home.

    ​Jessy B.
    Circa:1982

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    • #32
      Hey all - This has been a very interesting thread.  Lots of different ideas and discussion and a lot of information. It's all a learning experience for me.  Hey Jack - I've never eaten dove - how many for a mess or meal.  I have eaten quail but they're a bit bigger, I think. Huh?? ---Chuck
      Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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      • #33
        I will be the first to agree that any size sharpened rock on the end of
        a stick could kill a deer as well as a birdie, but I just want to say I
        like Lithophylics' hypothesis about the adolescents guarding the crops
        with adolescent sized weapons. And I have one field that would be a good
        example. It's a huge field where we find the usual types, sizes, and materials
        of arrowheads all over the area.

        http://www.varockhounder.com/uploads...1907177060.jpg not found

        But right in the middle of this field we find all these small quartz points.
        Some are well made and some are barely finished. Infact, when we first started
        seeing these things we thought they were flakes. After a closer look,
        we realized they were complete little points. That's when I too started
        wondering about the possibility of these being blow gun points. But after
        entertaining the thought for a year or two, I realized how reedickulos that
        would be.
        It is very interesting to me that these small points, only and extensively
        found in the central area of the site, or the ideal area for field crops, are
        mainly made of quartz, a more easily acquired and more dispensable material.
        I have to question why so many are made that small and out of that material.
        I posted this pic once before, and it hasn't gotten any better, so I doubt you
        will be able to see much detail, but these are the points I'm talking about.

        http://www.varockhounder.com/uploads...1907343284.jpg not found

        It's very curious to me, and I just wanted to say I like LP's hypothesis.
        As far as size goes, here's an example from the same field.

        Side A

        http://www.varockhounder.com/uploads...1907397442.jpg not found

        The one on the left I believe to be an early "arrowhead". I would put this
        point in the transition period from Late Archaic to Early Woodland, when the
        bow and arrow were first being introduced. Sure, it could be a dart point too,
        but the amount of core rock left on the exterior of it suggests to me
        a more "experimental" form. The one on the right is without doubt what we
        call around here a Randolph point. The very last type of arrowhead made in
        this area. Coe dates the Randolph Period from 1750-1820 AD. Guns were the
        preferred weapon of this time but some very destitute bands had to resort to
        the bow and arrow. The wildly uneven shoulders on this piece are the tell-tale
        signs of type. The more symmetrical form of the one on the left seems to be a
        trait from the earlier Archaic forms. A total guess at age would be around BC1000.

        Side B

        http://www.varockhounder.com/uploads...1907539581.jpg not found

        Had two cents burning a hole in my pocket.
        Joe

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        • #34
          I don't totally disagree with the child theory.  But I don't think it's the size of the point that determines who used it.  I think the more fitting explanation is the quality of the point being used.  There is a Folsom site near my home called Barger Gulch.  It's the highest Folsom site ever discovered, and it is one of the most complete.  There were several tent structures that were identified by the lithic debitage that was excavated.  In the largest structure, they found an abundance of crudely worked Folsom points.  If you can imagine, the Folsom form must have taken years to perfect.  They theorized that children learning the craft were housed in the main structure, because the other structures exhibited more technical knapping.  There's some good reading on the Barger Gulch site that I think anyone that loves the paleo era should read...

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          • #35
            One thing I am not sure my rambling was clear on is if you took all of the birdies from say one of the fields I have been referencing and measured them, you would note a dichotomy or separation into two general groups; one being characteristic of the "normal" or mean dimensions for the type point (be it madisons or hamiltons (the most common)) and another set distinctly smaller. I regret my first pic as I would consider it to be the small end of the normal group. The smaller ones I am referring to typically have a maximum base width less then 3/8-inch and a length less then 0.5 inches.
            In my opinion, if you tried to lash these to a normal diameter arrow shaft, it would be more problematic and it would be just as easy to make them a little larger so they would attach easier to the shaft. Where I hunt, chert and quartz resources are definitely not in shortage so there would be no obvious reason to make them so small. As mentioned before, they do not appear to be resharpened larger ones, but deliberately made that way.
            The second point I would like to make is that I ever reference in absolutes. I would imagine that weapons used would have ranged from small to adult-sized depending on the user. My "point" that I wanted to raise was the possibility that these areas could be used for convenient training areas so that when they became adults, they would have had the base skills necessary to make and use these weapons to support the community. I proposed the possibility based on the dimensions of these small points, the association with farming areas (in my neck of the woods), and the knowledge (documented) that children often cared for crops.
            I too have enjoyed this string and the ideas proposed herein. It has made me realize that the size/style of the points used is definitely impacted by resource availability, local environment and necessary hunting techniques which all can be vastly different depending on the region you are considering.

            http://forums.arrowheads.com/media/k...allPoints2.JPG not found

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            • #36
              I was searching Michigan archie sites and (dont remember what site!) they hypothesized the points found were made by children, in training. So I tend to agree with Tim. This was all before recorded history so nobody knows for sure! Think of it this way...ya start out with a BB gun...then your Dad takes you out squirrel hunting with a .22..... finally you are ready for deer hunting with a rifle. Im sure the native american "Dads" progressed their kids in the same way. When the men were out hunting....who was the "Man of the house!!?? JMO.

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              • #37
                Good point Mark and i think your right. Actually think quite a few of the opinions/theories have merit. But I also think we tend to oversimplify and romanticise the life of those before us. Life was hard, lots of factors involved in trying to stay alive, grow, expand their families and culture and on and on.
                Why did they make that point, that way? How did they use it?
                My guess, often for alot more than just one reason.
                Searching the fields of NW Indiana and SW Michigan

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                • #38
                  Yup, they lead a simple life of just trying to survive. Sometimes I think people do too much thinking and should put themselves in their shoes!

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                  • #39
                    Glad I'm not, got hvac, plumbing and toilet paper, life is pretty good!
                    Searching the fields of NW Indiana and SW Michigan

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