weird point...

[painshill]

weird point...
Posted by [cgode]

Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2012 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.

Have found a couple handfuls of flakes and some scrapers and a flake knife on the beach since our recent stormy weather. Along with those a couple of brokes, one must have been quite large for our area and a whole point today that has me slightly baffled. The lateral margins have the typical Jack's Reef angles but the base is all wrong. The point is also kind of on the hefty side for a JR as they are usually quite thin, and....the material isn't that of the typical Hornfels or Jasper that the JR folks loved so much. Any ideas would be appreciated as to type and lithic material.
I am thinking a anciently broken/reworked JR but would like to hear others opinions...
First pic in my daughters hand....I accidentally deleted the insitu.....duh!



The weirdo and a broke that must have been large


Close up of JR?



Posted by [gregszybala]
Yep weird!

Posted by [gregszybala]
Sorry, couldn't help myself! Why not Jack's Reef? I have what I think is an Adena, but much of it is all wrong, yet it looks just like an Adena. A beginner, somebody trying something new, reworked, a kid getting punished and having to sit in the corner of the wigwam till he makes a point!
I understand that there are point types and most of what we find fit into those named types, but every single person created a point that is supposed to look textbook? No way!

Posted by [Hoss]
could just be a re worked Lamoka point.

Posted by [CMD]
Nice point, Chris. I believe it's a JR Corner-Notch. Base might be a little funky and thick isn't typical, but I don't think it falls outside an accepted range. Whatever that means! LOL. Taking into account you've got a JR component at that site anyway and have found quite a few JR's That blade outline could result from resharpening a point of a different style as well, but I'd go with JR. The material looks for all the world like the black felsite we find in RI and SE Ma. And I've seen JR's made of brown felsite. If I have any photos of black felsite, I'll put one up here for comparison. That hornfels tip came from a big boy!
OK, wrote the above before reading Greg and Hoss. Agree with Greg, mustn't get bogged down in cookie-cutter typology and Hoss, I was thinking Lamoka when I mentioned resharpened! LOL. But, given the locale or site, I'll still go with JR.

Posted by [JoshinMO]
Lithic looks like a Rhyolite or another Igneous Material. Not sure just how far a source like that could be from You there.


Posted by [Hoss]
Chris congrats on the find. I agree it looks like Black Felsite material but not quite sure if that is a Jacks Reef. I would have to see it in hand. Strongly agree wiyth what Greg said too.
Here is a picture of Black Felsite point found in North Western CT
I have read that this material has a source in Maine Probably was a source in Massachusetts too as I have seen artifacts made of it from there.

[painshill]

Posted by [SDhunter]
Glad to see you didn't blow away Chris. It is an odd looking point. It would become one of my favorites, since its a bit different. Congratulations. Gary

Posted by [CMD]
There's a nice Normanskill in Boudreau's book made of black felsite as well. actually quite a few in his book, including one of the Thunderbird form JR's I think. I would not rule out resharpened Lamoka, either.
Thick with a bulbous stem are traits of Lamoka, and some were good size. On the other hand, Lamoka was part of the so-called "Narrow Point Tradition" in the Northeast, and the blade on this point might be too broad for a Lamoka if reconstructed to first stage. All the large Lamoka points in Ritchie's study are narrow bladed, so, again, that fact might then lean one toward JR, esp. with a well represented JR component at that site. I do believe, Chris, that sometimes you do need to tumble a point around in your hand for awhile until the right answer grabs ya. I'm serious! Wasn't laughing at the Lamoka suggestion, Hoss. Thought it was an astute suggestion, actually. Just got a kick at the coincidence that I was on that wavelength too when considering what it might be if it were resharpened. You were probably typing it just as I was thinking it.


Posted by [turkeytail]
Agree with JR only because of pentagonal form...no clue really! Wild lithic tho....

Posted by [chase]
Well if you asked me, I would call it a "Sandy Washout" point. That is some cool material. I agree with Greg as well, typing points text book would say that only one person made the type cast. Just not the case. Still looks like a great day. Thanks!


Posted by [CMD]
Not sure if this is the place for this. Certainly not trying to hijack the thread. Just wanted to show 2 of the 3 variations of the JR Coorner-Notch style. The one on the left I just call the "ace of spades" style, and on the right the perhaps better known pentagonal blade style. Boudreau also illustrates the Thunderbird form, which resembles its' namesake in outline, but I don't have any of those.





Posted by [G10]
I have no idea , but man I love it ! be hard to type that one for me ! wow! what a point love it


Posted by [Hoss]
I threw in the Lamoka comment just to promote thought on the point. Yes it does have a Bulbous base That along with Chris saying it was thick led me to a snap judgement (indicators it was Lamoka). It looks corner notched. The way that point is angled into the notch from the base looks so much like a Jacks Reef trait that coupled with the pentagonal blade edges are (good indicators of JR). Its a coin toss LOL
Chris you could try a little exercise for your self. Take a picture of that one with the other Jacks Reef points from that beach then carefully examine the things about the point that are similar. Then examine what is different. It should help with a conclusion about that great point.
Charlie yesterday I had written a comment about Bulbous stems and Lamoka's but did not post it. I think we are on the same wave length brother. Its good to have you back in the forums.


Posted by [Hoss]
Charlie not trying to further hi jack Chris' thread here but what is the velvety looking material again?
Those two are beautiful Jacks Reef examples.

Posted by [CMD]
Hoss wrote:
Charlie not trying to further hi jack Chris' thread here but what is the velvety looking material again?
Those two are beautiful Jacks Reef examples.

Thank you, Hoss. The material on those is hornfels. Don't know the source, but doesn't resemble Braintree hornfels. BTW, don't think Lamoka was a "snap judgement" but rather one born of eyes with a great deal of experience in Northeastern typology Bulbous stems and Lamoka's? Yep, we're in tune, brother Coin toss it is. LOL.


Posted by [rmartin]
I couldn't give a guess what it is but I like it.

Posted by [cgode]
Well, been a busy day at work again so let's see if I can catch up here on my thread.

That's certainly a possibility Greg that it's just an oddball Jack's Reef and doesn't fit the "typical" parameters of such. Certainly there are cases of points that aren't "typical" and I couldn't agree more.

Hoss and Charlie....reworked Lamoka is possible as well but I'm leaning more towards JR.....a fat,chunky JR.....maybe the material doesn't allow for the typical thinning of that type. The base doesn't have the characteristic bulbous base with some cortex often seen on them.....instead it's thinned bifacially (better pics are needed)

Charlie, you mentioned the "Thunderbird" form described by Boudreau....this one actually looks more like that form with some basal damage/repair and I had compared it to Boudreau's pics. I have another "Thunderbird" at home and will put together a couple of pics here to show and do some comparisons like Matt said....great idea!

Gary, nope....didn't blow away and this point, being an oddball is definitely going to be a favorite, both for it's uniqueness and lithic.

Chase...Sandy washout.......lmao!
And thanks for the pics of JRs guys....all awesome!....this is my first Felsite point and I do like the look of that lithic....kinda neat!
Thanks Ray, I kinda like it too!!

[painshill]

Posted by [cgode]
Here's a few pics and some specific info on the Jack's Reef points I currently have, I also included some info on a couple broken tips I believe to be JRs. Not quite scientific analysis with such a small sampling but these are all from the same location. When I first started looking at these points I was wondering if there would be a ratio as to length/width but I think I have one that is probably a first stage and hasn't been reworked....at least that is the reasoning I can come up with.
Any further insight would be appreciated.

#8 is the point that started his thread and it appears to fall into the ranges I have explored here, the base is the only part that looks odd....I'm going to call it an oddball JR.



and a family photo....




cgode
OK......a bunch loaded sideways....everybody turn your heads!!

Posted by [CMD]
Great job, Chris. At first I thought the 2 in the upper right were JR Pentagonal until I realized the bases were missing on those. The rest are JR Corner-Notch to my eyes. And I believe 2nd one from top on left side is the one that might be the Thunderbird form??

Posted by [cgode]
Thanks Charlie, yes, #2 is a Thunderbird form. I had planned on asking Boudreau for more information as to the "Thunderbird form" as his publication is the only place I've seen it referenced. Unfortunately that can't happen now. The rest are the side notched type and #4 was possibly a Thunderbird as well but was broken and reworked placing it back in service. JRs are one of my favorite types due to their overall appearance and especially the lithics used.

Posted by [Hoss]
Great pictures Chris Looks like a JR to me now for sure.

Posted by [ajbhawkowl]
Nice find congrat