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  • What exactly is this?

    What exactly is this?
    Posted by [keith4142]

    Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2012 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.

    This was given to me by my Grandfather and was given to him by his Grandfather. I was told it was used for bow strings.. but not entirely sure... I put it in my hand for scale.
    any help would be appreciated!

    Click image for larger version

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    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Looks like an atlatal weight. Can we see the other side? It is a real nice artifact.
    Jack

    Posted by [turkeytail]
    Nice piece!

    Posted by [keith4142]
    Sure here is reverse side!

    Click image for larger version

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    Posted by [keith4142]
    So what exactly is a atlatal weight? Anyway to tell the approx date of a object like this?


    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Yes that is an atlatal weight. These type weights were used from Paleo time tell the bow replaced the atlatal.

    It consists of a shaft with a cup or a spur at the end that supports and propels the butt of the dart. The atlatl is held in one hand, gripped near the end farthest from the cup. The dart is thrown by the action of the upper arm and wrist. The throwing arm together with the atlatl acts as a lever. The atlatl is a low-mass, fast-moving extension of the throwing arm, increasing the length of the lever. This extra length allows the thrower to impart force to the dart over a longer distance, thus imparting more energy and ultimately higher speeds

    A traditional atlatl is a long-range weapon and can readily impart to a projectile speeds of over 93 mph.

    Here is a picture of how it went on the atlatal or throwing stick.

    Click image for larger version

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    Atlatl weights add balance and stability to an atlatl system. They improve accuracy for many atlatlists and make it easier to hold the atlatl steady while aiming at the target. One reason it helps to steady the atlatl is that it balances the weight of the dart. It also adds inertia to the system which tends to minimize shaking and wiggling caused by the atlatlists body functions such as heartbeat and respiration etc.

    Depending on the placement of the weight on the shaft of the atlatl, there is also more or less of a "pendulum effect" which helps to stabilize the swinging atlatl during the shot. Placing the weight closer to the hook end of the atlatl produces more of the effect at the expense of some of the speed or energy of the shot. Placing the weight closer to the handle is a good compromise between not having a weight and having it out at the distal end.
    Jack
    Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 01:11 PM.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

  • #2
    Posted by [rmartin]
    Beautiful piece of Banded Slate. I agree atl atl weight, some type of Bannerstone.

    Posted by [gregszybala]
    Nice!

    Posted by [Mt. Hope]
    Doesn't the groove lie the wrong direction for an atlatl weight? I don't get it. What purpose would the groove serve after tying it on?

    Posted by [Speedmaster]
    Good question Ruthie...and nice artifact.

    Posted by [Butch Wilson]
    It is a nice piece of banded slate. I find it curious that what appears as a dished out area on the back, presumed to allow the stone to sit more securely on the shaft runs along the long axis. You would expect the groove to secure the cordage would be oriented across the long axis as in the attachment illustration posted earlier in this thread.

    Posted by [keith4142]
    I have looked up banded slate items and most appear to possibly be fakes.. I agree the groove runs in the wrong direction.. Perhaps it served another purpose? Or is a fake

    Posted by [greywolf22]
    This can be lashed using that groove.
    Jack

    Posted by [greywolf22]
    This is the way I think this one was hafted.

    Click image for larger version

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    Jack



    Posted by [greywolf22]
    keith4142 wrote:
    I have looked up banded slate items and most appear to possibly be fakes.. I agree the groove runs in the wrong direction.. Perhaps it served another purpose? Or is a fake

    I do not think it is fake and that it was lashed using that groove. These are generally agreed to be "tie-on" banner stones. I would send it to Jim Bennet to look over and for a COA.
    The type you have is called a loaf stone. This is another one but not as nice as yours.

    Click image for larger version

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    Jack
    Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 01:12 PM.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

    Comment


    • #3
      Posted by [Dallred]
      Nice material on that atlatl weight!

      Posted by [rmartin]
      keith4142 wrote:
      I have looked up banded slate items and most appear to possibly be fakes.. I agree the groove runs in the wrong direction.. Perhaps it served another purpose? Or is a fake

      I agree with Jack, I don't think this is a fake. To me it looks to have proper patination for slate. Do you have a provenance(where it was found) for it?


      Posted by [keith4142]
      Awesome! Yes I looked up some other pictures of Loaf stones and they look very similar. Could any of you give a rough age of something like this?

      Posted by [keith4142]
      I had to call my grandfather on this issue and this rock was given to him by his grandfather, and his grandfather told him it was given to him by his grandfather.
      My Great Great Grandfather was from Missouri...while my grandfather was from Oklahoma.
      Who knows how long this rock has been passed down. Right now were looking at hundreds of years.

      Posted by [rmartin]
      keith4142 wrote:
      Awesome! Yes I looked up some other pictures of Loaf stones and they look very similar. Could any of you give a rough age of something like this?

      I am really not as learned on banners as I should be but most appear to be Middle Archaic which in the Midwest began about 6000 BC. From what I have read Banners came into use around 4000 BC. and continued for a few thousand years. An interesting little booklet is "The Development of the Spearthrower" by William S. Webb, published by the University of Kentucky 1957. It was reprinted I believe in 1981.


      Posted by [panaggie]
      I have to agree with Wolf on this one. Nice piece.
      Bob

      Posted by [Mt. Hope]
      greywolf22 wrote:
      This is the way I think this one was hafted.
      Click image for larger version

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      Jack

      Once ya' get the piece lashed on the atlatl, wouldn't ya' have to wrap the line around the rock also to hold it in place? Just doesn't seem it would hold as secure as necessary. When the dart is launched from the atlatl, the whole back side of the atlatl is thrust forward. I don't disagree, I'm just having trouble seeing the piece being functional as an atlatl weight. That's all.


      Posted by [Olden]
      Mt. Hope wrote:
      greywolf22 wrote:
      This is the way I think this one was hafted.
      Click image for larger version

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      Jack

      Once ya' get the piece lashed on the atlatl, wouldn't ya' have to wrap the line around the rock also to hold it in place? Just doesn't seem it would hold as secure as necessary. When the dart is launched from the atlatl, the whole back side of the atlatl is thrust forward. I don't disagree, I'm just having trouble seeing the piece being functional as an atlatl weight. That's all.

      Perhaps it was tied with a piece of wet braided rawhide: it would shrink up incredibly tight, and be as tough as nails once dried. A spot of glue on the backside (which would probably disappear through time) is also conceivable.



      Posted by [greywolf22]
      Pam
      I do not think so as the sinew or leather like Oden said would lock it in place once it dried. If they tied a band around the middle it would show as ware use and there in none on this artifact.
      Jack
      Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 01:13 PM.
      I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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