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  • 100 or so San Patrice related points

    100 or so San Patrice related points
    Posted by [clovisoid]

    Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2012 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.

    I had to shift around my East Tx frame (thanks to Mark Adams), and it ended up just being San Patrice related materials (mostly different flavors of San Patrice points) but also a couple of other points found on San Patrice sites.
    I've never found one of these points personally, but I've loved them since I ended up with one in trade. They are just really neat little, quirky late paleo and early Archaic points that have a lot of left over traits from their paleo fathers combined with side notching that started spreading like wildfire in the early archaic. I think they are Early Archaic based on their camp/site structure that shows them living in one spot over time, but there are many archaeologists that still clump them into late paleo.
    They are without a doubt, one of the coolest little 10,000 year old points out there for the money. For those that buy, my average cost per point in this frame is probably under $15.
    Please feel free to add your own pictures of San Patrice points!

    Click image for larger version

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    Posted by [chase]
    That good for nothing Adams! making you rearrange your case. I have never found one either, so I cant contribute to this thread. Looks like they got the maximum use out of those points. That is quite the collection assembled of a single type. Thanks for showing.

    Posted by [rmartin]
    We don't find those in Illinois but I appreciate seein yours.

    Posted by [panaggie]
    That row running up and down the center is special. Thanks for the the look at a very nice collection.
    Bob


    Posted by [clovisoid]
    I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow with the real camera. Some of them are very much like small fluted points, others show a very clear connection to Daltons, yet others are similar to Hardaways, others are identical to Kirks, and some look like small Scotty related tools.

    Chase, yes, they used these guys to the last drop. Part of that is that they are usually made with colorful local cobbles and pet woods that didn't come in large pieces, but a big part is that they just used and resharpened them extensively.

    Bob, I try to do those random placement displays that some people do, and I always end with the nicer points in the middle...


    Posted by [clifton]
    Very nice collection! Thanks for showing.
    Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 04:43 PM.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

  • #2
    Posted by [gregszybala]
    clovisoid wrote:
    I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow with the real camera. Some of them are very much like small fluted points, others show a very clear connection to Daltons, yet others are similar to Hardaways, others are identical to Kirks, and some look like small Scotty related tools.

    Being a relative newb, and looking at the diversity in that frame, this is the kind of stuff that strikes me as odd when it comes to identification. How the heck can all of those variations be the same point? Even if found in context laying next to each other I would think, different. I know the learning curve is unending (for me at least!), as well as what archaeology continues to find, but to lump all those as the same point?
    Just trying to understand.


    Posted by [clovisoid]
    Greg,
    A very valid question. As I understand it, San Patrice is a cluster of related varieties. There are San Patrice, San Patrice Hope, San Patrice St. John's, San Patrice Keithville, etc. etc. etc. (Kind of like Dalton where there are several varieties.)
    I'll post some better pictures today.
    Joshua


    Posted by [11KBP]
    gregszybala wrote:
    How the heck can all of those variations be the same point? Even if found in context laying next to each other I would think, different. I know the learning curve is unending (for me at least!), as well as what archaeology continues to find, but to lump all those as the same point?
    Just trying to understand.

    Nice collection Joshua.
    Your comment is very understandable Greg. I am having a little trouble with the "lumping" as well.


    Posted by [Hoss]
    Beautiful group of points there man. Thanks for sharing. I agree on the clumping kind of kills me when I see that. LOL You do have some real nice points there though. Easy on the pocket too.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

    Comment


    • #3
      Posted by [clovisoid]
      I started taking pictures today, and then had something come up. So only a few.

      I agree the clumping is interesting & troubling at the same time. It's clear that all of the San Patrice points are related, they are found on the same sites and they share similar tools. But the cross over with everything from early fluted points, to Cody material, to Dalton, Bolen, and other points is interesting.

      This is the "old" style San Patrice Hope Variety. They are essentially knapped with a Fluted Point template, and probably used a fluted point hafting system. (The width of fluted points is different than notched points, and that might be due in part to a change in hafting systems.) These, like many small fluted points, fit rib bones very well and might have been socketed.

      Click image for larger version

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      This is the Keithville Style. It shares some similarities with Kirk points in my view.

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      This is a style that looks like a Hardaway from the MidAtlantic coast to me.

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      A hybrid thinned base, and notched.

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      Another style.

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      A big Golondrina/Dalton point from a San Patrice site.

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      I still owe pictures of the points that are rather Bolen like.


      Posted by [mark adams]
      Your frame is larger then I had thought. That frame of San Patrice would be the envy of a lot of local collectors around here.
      It would take more then one life time for most collectors to find that many San Patrice. I just got lucky and found a very large campsite that was occupied for a long time.
      If you guys want to see some of the others that came from the site and the local area you can view them here at my website.
      http://www.arrowheadsoftexas.com/san-patrice.html

      These are the ones I kept for my "A" frame, as you can tell my favorite variety is the St. Johns type.

      Posted by [clovisoid]
      Mark, thanks again I think about 95% of them came from you!

      Posted by [Neanderthal]
      Nice array, Josh. It looks like you have most of the variants displayed.
      Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 04:46 PM.
      I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

      Comment

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