Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lake Baikal Skeleton is "Scientific Sensation"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lake Baikal Skeleton is "Scientific Sensation"

    This may help explain the presence of Western Eurasian DNA in Native American groups...
    http://siberiantimes.com/science/cas...fic-sensation/
    "New DNA findings, if confirmed, have stunning implications for our understanding of both pre-historic Siberians - and native Americans. They would suggest that, contrary to previous understanding, some indigenous populations are - in fact - European or West Asiatic in origin.
    The Danish-US research was carried out on the bones of a Siberian boy whose remains were found near the village of Mal'ta close to Lake Baikal in the 1920s in a grave adorned with flint tools, pendants, a bead necklace and a sprinkling of ochre. The remains are held in the world famous Hermitage Museum in St Petersburg and analysis of a bone in one of his arms represents 'the oldest complete genome of a modern human sequenced to date', according to Science magazine.
    'His DNA shows close ties to those of today's Native Americans. Yet he apparently descended not from East Asians, but from people who had lived in Europe or western Asia,' said ancient DNA expert Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen. 'The finding suggests that about a third of the ancestry of today's Native Americans can be traced to 'western Eurasia'.'
    The research may help explain why 'European ancestry previously detected in modern Native Americans do not come solely from mixing with European colonists, as most scientists had assumed, but have much deeper roots', said the report."

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_2013-10-29 [replaced].jpg
Views:	43
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	218284

    "The timing is uncertain but 'the deep roots in Europe or west Asia could help explain features of some Paleoamerican skeletons and of Native American DNA today'. Some of the traces of Eurasian genetic signatures in modern Native Americans do not come from colonial times when incoming Europeans mixed with the indigenous population.
    'Some of them are ancient,' said Willerslev. Geneticist Connie Mulligan of the University of Florida called the findings 'jaw-dropping'. "
    Rhode Island

  • #2
    Interesting read Charlie. Thanks.
    Like a drifter I was born to walk alone

    Comment


    • #3
      Very cool read, I enjoyed it.
      In a way, I'm surprised and how surprised scientists can be that people moved around so much when they see genetic information like this.  In more recent times the Mongols (Ghengis Khan's grandkids), the Persians, the Huns, even lesser know groups like the Cumans and the Alans, moved across huge swaths of land from Asia into Europe in a matter of months or years.  And they left a trail of DNA along the way.  Alexander the Great did the same going the other direction.  Arab traders spanned from Spain to Southeast Asia pretty quickly.  The Goths moved south very quickly, even the modern Roma/Gypsy populations as a civilian group picked up and moved huge distances in a relatively short period of time.
      It's all in walking distance...
      Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

      Comment


      • #4
        I posted the link to the paper in Nature in the post Clovis Alaska thread by mistake:
        http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture12736.html
        As well as this:
        http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/tw...siberia-449216
        "His team proceeded anyway to analyze the nuclear genome, which contains the major part of human inheritance. They were amazed when the nuclear genome also turned out to have partly European ancestry. Examining the genome from a second Siberian grave site, that of an adult who died some 17,000 years ago, they found the same markers of European origin. Together, the two genomes indicate that descendants of the modern humans who entered Europe had spread much farther east across Eurasia than had previously been assumed and occupied Siberia during an extremely cold period starting 20,000 years ago that is known as the Last Glacial Maximum.
        The other surprise from the Mal'ta boy's genome was that it matched to both Europeans and Native Americans but not to East Asians. Willerslev's interpretation was that the ancestors of Native Americans had already separated from the East Asian population when they interbred with the people of the Mal'ta culture, and that this admixed population  then crossed over the Beringian land bridge that then lay between Siberia and Alaska to become a founding population of Native Americans.
        "We estimate that 14 to 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population," he and colleagues wrote in an article published Wednesday in the journal Nature.
        A European contribution to Native American ancestry could explain two longstanding puzzles about the people's origins. One is that many ancient Native American skulls, including that of the well-known Kennewick man, look very different from those of the present-day population. Another is that one of the five mitochondrial DNA lineages found in Native Americans, the lineage known as X, also occurs in Europeans. One explanation is that Europeans managed to cross the Atlantic in small boats some 20,000 years ago and joined the Native Americans from Siberia.
        Willerslev thinks it more likely that European bearers of the X lineage had migrated across Siberia with the ancestors of the Mal'ta culture and joined them in their trek across the Beringian land bridge."
          This would certainly seem to be a very important study.
        Rhode Island

        Comment


        • #5
          Here is another early site on the edge of the Artic Circle. The artifacts that were found there point toward Europe.
            http://archaeology.about.com/od/yterms/qt/yana_rhs.htm

          Comment


          • #6
            [same reply as on the other thread where Charlie accidentally posted}:
            It’s very exciting. These kinds of studies will greatly add to our knowledge and reinforce or erode our theories.
            I've seen various quotes from interviews with Dr Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen who led the study team and was the main author of the report.
            It's interesting that the paper was presented at the Santa Fe conference with the author's view (firmly expressed as "the jury's still out") that it potentially provides more evidence for Beringian land bridge than Solutrean boats... yet those who have already made up their minds took it as further evidence for Solutrean boats.
            I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yep, because the artifacts that were found at the Rhinoceros Horn site on the Yana River look to me like they were left by exploring Solutreans right out of France or Spain.

              Comment


              • #8
                Bill wrote:

                Yep, because the artifacts that were found at the Rhinoceros Horn site on the Yana River look to me like they were left by exploring Solutreans right out of France or Spain.
                  In the Yana Delta, the assorted mammal bones associated with artefacts generally date to older than 27,000 years ago. The rhinoceros horn foreshaft is at least 28,000 years old. The probability is that the area was first occupied at least 30,000 years ago (ie significantly before the Late Glacial Maximum and around 8,000 years before the Solutrean culture existed).
                The Solutrean industry didn’t even appear in Europe until 22,000 years ago (in Spain) and spread to France a little later.
                The pointer is to Europe (in the sense of Eurasian populations), but it sure doesn’t point to Solutreans from France or Spain.
                I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE]painshill wrote:

                  Originally posted by Bill post=105558
                  Yep, because the artifacts that were found at the Rhinoceros Horn site on the Yana River look to me like they were left by exploring Solutreans right out of France or Spain.
                    In the Yana Delta, the assorted mammal bones associated with artefacts generally date to older than 27,000 years ago. The rhinoceros horn foreshaft is at least 28,000 years old. The probability is that the area was first occupied at least 30,000 years ago (ie significantly before the Late Glacial Maximum and around 8,000 years before the Solutrean culture existed).
                  The Solutrean industry didn’t even appear in Europe until 22,000 years ago (in Spain) and spread to France a little later.
                  The pointer is to Europe (in the sense of Eurasian populations), but it sure doesn’t point to Solutreans from France or Spain.
                    If the Solutrean industry did not appear in Europe until 22,000 years ago, then the date of 25,800 +/- 120 yrs from Oyster Cove! Md, with artifacts associated, predates that industry in Europe, yes? That early date and 21,490 +/- 140 yrs  RCYBP from Miles Point, Md, floor me to be honest. Where did the people who stopped at these far Eastern sites come from? Up from the south? From the east before Solutrean? From Beringia? Those early dates from Maryland just floor me for some reason :blink:
                  Rhode Island

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE]CMD wrote:

                    [quote=painshill post=105560]
                    Originally posted by Bill post=105558
                    Yep, because the artifacts that were found at the Rhinoceros Horn site on the Yana River look to me like they were left by exploring Solutreans right out of France or Spain.
                      In the Yana Delta, the assorted mammal bones associated with artefacts generally date to older than 27,000 years ago. The rhinoceros horn foreshaft is at least 28,000 years old. The probability is that the area was first occupied at least 30,000 years ago (ie significantly before the Late Glacial Maximum and around 8,000 years before the Solutrean culture existed).
                    The Solutrean industry didn’t even appear in Europe until 22,000 years ago (in Spain) and spread to France a little later.
                    The pointer is to Europe (in the sense of Eurasian populations), but it sure doesn’t point to Solutreans from France or Spain.
                      If the Solutrean industry did not appear in Europe until 22,000 years ago, then the date of 25,800 +/- 120 yrs from Oyster Cove! Md, with artifacts associated, predates that industry in Europe, yes? That early date and 21,490 +/- 140 yrs  RCYBP from Miles Point, Md, floor me to be honest. Where did the people who stopped at these far Eastern sites come from? Up from the south? From the east before Solutrean? From Beringia? Those early dates from Maryland just floor me for some reason :blink:
                    That’s why Eske Willerslev’s results on the DNA from the Mal'ta boy are so interesting. As he points out, the unexpected presence of European ancestry in this 24,000 year old individual in Siberia demonstrates that the descendants of modern humans who entered Europe had spread much further east across Eurasia than had previously been assumed.  They were likely present in the areas adjacent to the land bridge before (and, it seems, during) the extremely cold period of the LGM. European ancestry was also confirmed in an adult Siberian skeleton from the same region dating to 17,000 years ago.
                    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And another read on the study, as Roger said, presented at the Santa Fe conference:
                      http://rt.com/news/archaeological-si...-european-069/
                      "Firstly, the boy was from all over Europe: the two examined genomes show that modern Europeans had traveled much father into Eurasia than we had previously assumed.
                      Kelly Graf, an assistant professor at the Center for the Study of First Americans and Department of Anthropology at Texas A&M, who helped Willersley in his research, told Science Daily that the find “shows he had close genetic ties to today's Native Americans and some western Eurasians… Also, he shared close genetic ties with other Ice-Age western Eurasians living in European Russia, Czech Republic and even Germany. We think these Ice-Age people were quite mobile and capable of maintaining a far-reaching gene pool that extended from central Siberia all the way west to central Europe."
                      Secondly, the Native American connection was finally found.
                      "Our study proves that Native Americans’ ancestors migrated to the Americas from Siberia and not directly from Europe as some have recently suggested," Graf said. This sort of intricate and complete DNA mapping of a human is the oldest of its kind ever performed.
                      However, given the boy’s European-Native-American mix, it was strange that the boy had no connection to modern East Asians. This has led Willersley and his team to suppose that the ancient Native Americans had already broken off ties with the East Asians before interbreeding with the Mal’ta people, to whom the boy belongs.
                      This population must then have traveled over the frozen Beringian land bridge that used to be between Siberia and Alaska. This consequently resulted in the creation of the modern Native Americans."
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------
                      I notice the writer sticks to the land bridge. But I don't presume a Pacific coast kelp highway is eliminated as a route into the Americas?  At times? Multiple routes from Asia? And, to be honest, I need clarification on why the direct route Europe to Delmarva is eliminated necessarily? Graf seems to eliminate the possibility.  Why are there such early dates in the Delmarva Peninsula? Just because that's where all the focus is by many? I know there are pre-Clovis sites in our western states, but have any given up dates as old as Oyster Cove, Md.? We just haven't found them yet? There's a lot I don't know, and I know far less then Roger or Bill. Those are just questions that come to mind. Pretty exciting times.
                      Rhode Island

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        CMD wrote:

                        ... I notice the writer sticks to the land bridge. But I don't presume a Pacific coast kelp highway is eliminated as a route into the Americas? Multiple routes from Asia? And, to be honest, I need clarification on why the direct route Europe to Delmarva is eliminated necessarily? Graf seems to eliminate the possibility.
                          I'm not sure it was the intent to say that either of those are now eliminated as a possible events or routes. They both still remain tenable propositions. I think Graf means the land bridge still looks like the route for the first arrivers (but earlier than previously assumed) and the founding population. That doesn't necessarily exclude later arrivers by other routes, unsuccessful expeditions, temporary occupation of small groups etc.
                        I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE]painshill wrote:

                          Originally posted by CMD post=105568
                          ... I notice the writer sticks to the land bridge. But I don't presume a Pacific coast kelp highway is eliminated as a route into the Americas? Multiple routes from Asia? And, to be honest, I need clarification on why the direct route Europe to Delmarva is eliminated necessarily? Graf seems to eliminate the possibility.
                            I'm not sure it was the intent to say that either of those are now eliminated as a possible events or routes. They both still remain tenable propositions. I think Graf means the land bridge still looks like the route for the first arrivers (but earlier than previously assumed) and the founding population. That doesn't necessarily exclude later arrivers by other routes, unsuccessful expeditions, temporary occupation of small groups etc.
                            Thanks Roger, that's reasonable.
                          Rhode Island

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            More on the Siberian site itself:
                            http://archaeology.about.com/od/uppe...lta-Russia.htm
                            And a good look at the figurines, as well as many other artifacts from this site. The page is updated with the most recent DNA study and is a great one stop page by the looks of it:
                            http://donsmaps.com/malta.html
                            Rhode Island

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CMD wrote:

                              More on the Siberian site itself:
                              http://archaeology.about.com/od/uppe...lta-Russia.htm
                                Thanks Charlie.
                              Don't you hate it that when people report dates, they never report them in the same way and sometimes don't even use the correct terms? The about.com site is excellent, but even in that summary they're using a mixture of calibrated and uncalibrated radiocarbon dates.
                              Don't even get me started on newspaper reports that use a mixture of BP and BC dates.  :laugh:
                              I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X