Megalithic Ruins in Russia

[gregszybala]

3000 ton granite rocks cut and shaped moved up a mountain and stacked up to 40 meters high.........

http://nhmetaphysical.com/2014/07/newly-found-megalithic-ruins-in-russia-contain-the-largest-blocks-of-stone-ever-discovered/

:dunno:   

[CMD]

Thanks, Greg. That first photo is a doozy! I've read about this recently, I think. I think it possible the argument is out there that they are natural, but I could be mistaken. If I find out anymore in that regard, I'll post it. I have a feeling Roger has heard of this one as well....

That's hard to see as natural, I know. But is the "mountain" actually natural? :dunno:

[CMD]

This Wiki page comes with issues(?), but delves into the natural explanation.....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gornaya_Shoria_megaliths

Gave a fairly good look, but could not find any references that were not from New Age websites. Could not find any real observations by geologists themselves. So far.

[gregszybala]

Agree on the mountain, it does look natural and of course they don't give you pics with enough distance to really judge. Yes, no science referenced, new age websites and the possibility of giants and or aliens!

[painshill]

I think reports from Russia of strange structures have to be treated with considerable caution… especially when they come from folks like Valery Uvarov and Georgy Sidorov. They both have a long history of extraordinary (but unproven) claims which mainstream science and archaeology has rejected.
These stones have been known about for a long time and seemingly attracted no particular attention as anything other than a natural geological feature. Note also from the pictures that there are dwellings built into the hillside in the immediate vicinity, so it’s not a completely unpopulated remote area. They were first suggested to be man-made by Uvarov and Sidorov about a year ago.
Uvarov is Russia’s foremost UFOlogist and an advocate of various “alternate history” theories for mankind, lost civilisations, OOPARTs (out-of-place artefacts) and such. Sidorov is fairly similarly inclined, as well as being a “researcher” into relict hominids in Siberia (primitive ape-like creatures akin to the Yeti which have allegedly survived into modern times).
Here’s a few quotes attributed to Sidorov and his expedition (badly translated from Russian): “[What] we saw exceeded all our expectations. We found a wall built with large granite blocks, some of which reach a length of 20 meters and a height of 6 meters. Interestingly, the megalithic masonry sometimes alternated with polygonal masonry. At the top of the wall, we saw traces of an ancient stone fusion. [It] was clear to us that the structure had suffered powerful thermonuclear explosions or any other.“ Apparently, they came to the conclusion that it was an old powerhouse, because in some places “the vertical plates of the capacitor had been blocked by powerful horizontal blocks.” By “old powerhouse” they mean an ancient structure (in the hundreds of millions of years) to generate electricity, using improbably advanced technology.
My money is on “natural”.  :laugh:

[painshill]

Incidentally, I believe that the picture Charlie posted is not at Gornaya Shoria – or even in Russia at all. It appears to be the “Stone of the Pregnant Woman” (Hadjar el Hibla) which is at Baalbek in the Lebanon. That one is man-made and it’s one of the largest monoliths ever quarried, at an estimated 1,000 tonnes and was intended for the Roman temple at Heliopolis (modern Baalbek). It would have taken some considerable effort to move it, although the quarry was about 900 meters uphill from the temple complex where the stone was found, so perhaps not as much effort as is popularly believed.

[gregszybala]

Thanks Roger.
it was pretty obvious it was way out there but I had to share it!

[CMD]

painshill wrote:

Incidentally, I believe that the picture Charlie posted is not at Gornaya Shoria – or even in Russia at all. It appears to be the “Stone of the Pregnant Woman” (Hadjar el Hibla) which is at Baalbek in the Lebanon. That one is man-made and it’s one of the largest monoliths ever quarried, at an estimated 1,000 tonnes and was intended for the Roman temple at Heliopolis (modern Baalbek). It would have taken some considerable effort to move it, although the quarry was about 900 meters uphill from the temple complex where the stone was found, so perhaps not as much effort as is popularly believed.

  OK, that was from the first link. And no caption. One would expect they would lead the story off in a less deceptive manner then that. On the other hand, Baalbek is amazing.....

[painshill]

[QUOTE]CMD wrote:

Incidentally, I believe that the picture Charlie posted is not at Gornaya Shoria – or even in Russia at all. It appears to be the “Stone of the Pregnant Woman” (Hadjar el Hibla) which is at Baalbek in the Lebanon. That one is man-made and it’s one of the largest monoliths ever quarried, at an estimated 1,000 tonnes and was intended for the Roman temple at Heliopolis (modern Baalbek). It would have taken some considerable effort to move it, although the quarry was about 900 meters uphill from the temple complex where the stone was found, so perhaps not as much effort as is popularly believed.

  OK, that was from the first link. And no caption. One would expect they would lead the story off in a less deceptive manner then that. On the other hand, Baalbek is amazing.....
  Yes, it is amazing isn't it? Almost all of these kinds of sensational articles use photographs of "the real thing" to add credence to completely unconnected sites which are not the real thing. The stones at Gornaya Shoria are nothing like as convincing as the well-documented ones at Baalbek.

[CMD]

Greg, since you brought up the subject of "mysterious megalithic sites", alternate history enthusiast Graham Hancock seems to be at least partly responsible for elevating a megalithic site in Java into popular consciousness. A place called Gunung Padang. The reason he's elevating it is the claimed age, among other aspects. But, since you brought it up, it occurs to me that this is perhaps the "hottest" megalithic site at this time among some quarters of the popular imagination. One of the more imaginative "zeitgeists" of the day seems to be the effort to revision the beginnings of civilization. Basically the Atlantis myth. Very popular these days to look for evidence of earlier civilizations, as well as the suggestion that earlier people possessed advanced technology, etc.  Sites like Puma Punku, Bolivia cited as evidence for a more advanced tech then assumed.
I confess to having always found the idea of an earlier civilization then those known to be fascinating, and very enjoyable to delve into. But people do get carried away and all kind of characters in the field. And I think hucksters, who are, after all professionals at helping people fill in the blanks in their knowledge in a Pied Piper style. Very popular tourist packages designed to bring one to various ancient sites where alternative history is then overlain on the scene by the guide(s). $$$ for some.
I digress. Here's Gunung Padang. Roger, the fuss seems to be over the dates. Do you happen to have an opinion on the claims of I think 24,000 years+?

http://martinjclemens.com/graham-hancock-offers-update-on-gunung-padang-excavation/

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2014/01/gunung-padang-and-the-lost-city-of-atlantis/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ImTuVI9lhc

Drone's eye view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvSBQkmPDe4

[painshill]

The “archaeological” work at Gunung Padang is being conducted by Dr Danny Hilman, a geologist from the California Institute of Technology and funded by the Indonesian Government with the personal enthusiasm of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and one of his party politicians, Andy Arif. I put the word “archaeological” in inverted commas because the work is largely being carried out by untrained manual labour with the seeming intention of exposing what may lie below as rapidly as possible. Arcaheological conventions, protocols and disciplines seem to have largely gone out of the window. The politicians seem intent on establishing a connection to an ancient “superior civilisation” past for Java. They’ve even offered the Indonesian Army’s earth-moving capabilities to hurry things along.
The lure is Hilman’s assertion that geo-surveys indicate an ancient pyramid lies below the piles of stone and could be at least 20,000 years old. One (of many) critics is the vulcanologist Sutikno Bronto. He is sure that the so-called pyramid is simply the neck of a nearby volcano. Putting it bluntly he is quoted as saying: “Danny Hilman is not a vulcanologist. I am.”
  Hilman has also made claims that some of the stones are held together by some kind of ancient glue which has provided a carbon date “well in excess of 9,000 years”. There has been no peer review or independent confirmation for that and Sutikno believes it to be an erroneous finding… the result of natural weathering.
One archaeologist, who (perhaps wisely) asked not to be named has said that the Presidential taskforce is deluding itself: “'In the Pawon cave in Padalarang [about 45 kilometres from Gunung Padang], we found some human bones and tools made of bones about 9500 years ago, or about 7000 BCE. So, if at 7000 BCE our technology was only producing tools of bones, how can people from 20,000 BCE obtain the technology to build a pyramid?”
It is indeed an authentic Megalithic site (and the largest in South-Eastern Asia) but its shape and construction are consistent with a date of around 1,500 BC, compared to other similar constructions which have associated dates.  There may well be older material below the surface that demonstrates a succession of occupation dates over a period of time, but there is no demonstrable reason to believe that any such finds would demonstrate anything other than a normal progression of technology through time.