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  • The Archaeology of Bears Ears

    This category of our forum is described as a place to post archaeology news, reports and discussion. And I am posting this topic because it very clearly comes under the heading of archaeology news:



    Now, I was not born yesterday. I understand that there is very much a political component to the recent decision involving Bears Ears. But, as collectors, we have been able to hold discussions here, in the past, involving the differences, as well as the agreements, between collectors and archaeologists without devolving to the point of seeing threads closed. I would just suggest, that while this article presents the point of view of American archaeologists as well as members of the 5 First Nations people who were to help manage an area containing the largest concentration of Ancestral Puebloans ruins in the United States, there are other valid points of view having to do with states rights vs. the federal government, the so called Sagebrush Rebellion, etc. I honestly believe we could actually present both points of view in a civil fashion.

    But, I am not saying that's easy to do, since people are very much impassioned these days, and in a cyberspace setting, things can get out of hand that would not happen if we were all sitting in a living room discussing those issues.

    So, I'm going to suggest this article simply be treated as what it actually is, news from the world of archaeology.






    Rhode Island

  • #2
    And, by the way, the above article appears in the internet news section of the most prestigious scientific journal in the world. There is no gold standard higher then Nature.
    Rhode Island

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    • sailorjoe
      sailorjoe commented
      Editing a comment
      Gold standard or not, Nature just like National Geographic and other magazines that try to reduce pure science to something that the masses can understand have a political agenda. Their political biases shine through in this article. And BTW, Nature is prestigious but it is not a scientific journal.

  • #3
    Hi Charlie. It is, indeed, news from the "world of archaeology". But as you said, this article presents the views of two groups only and is therefore biased by definition. Consequently, it is a poor basis for starting a discussion on whether or not the Bears Ears Monument (which was only designated recently) should or should not be reduced in size, if that is what you are proposing. Or is it? The Secretary of Interior has announced plans or hopes to reduce the size of other national monuments as well. Some may have been designated for archaeological reasons and some for different reasons entirely. This forum is not the place to get involved in political discussions regarding laws or events not impacting directly our collecting hobby. This event only impacts other interests we may have. Having said all this, I'm not exactly sure what it is you are proposing. Because at first you talk about discussions and then you talk about treating it as news.

    Comment


    • CMD
      CMD commented
      Editing a comment
      Basically, I just wanted the news about Bears Ears out there for people interested in the prehistoric cultural resources of the United States to read. And I was treating the locked threads on the subject as a form of censorship. However, as long as the thread actually exists, with its links, it's not truly censorship in any event, and so I'm fine with the way it stands now. I do probably make the mistake of assuming artifact collectors support the preservation of archaeological sites, because I do, lol. But, obviously not all artifact collectors support that goal at all. So, what happened is I posted this thread and link as soon as I saw Tom's thread on the subject of Bears Ears had been locked. But, bottom line, my mistake was assuming everyone in this particular community support the preservation of such sites, and perhaps the preservation movement in the United States in general. And that is clearly not the case. And to hopefully clarify further, I was hoping it would just be treated as news, without the need to introduce political observations. Sites were protected. Now those same sites are not protected. News from the world of archaeology. People can agree or disagree without choosing to do so in this thread. Sites were protected. Sites are no longer protected. For anyone interested in the protection of archaeological sites in the American Southwest, it is, after all, huge news. And I really don't think it has to be news about a new discovery, or a revealing dig, etc, to constitute archaeology news. I think it fits just fine in this category. Just as I thought Tom's thread about the fossil resources of Escalante fit just fine in our fossil category. I just hated to see all these threads(3 now) getting locked. I'm not sure if this means talking about the preservation of historic and prehistoric cultural resources is now forbidden on arrowheads.com or not, but, it kinda seems that way. Maybe post a note in the archaeology section: do not post any articles that promote the preservation of archaeological cultural resources.

  • #4
    See, it's impossible. Even if we agree this article has bias we can't get past that. Present differing article based on a different take? Discuss the merits of preservation or it use? Not going to happen. We let our emotions dictate our thought and even worse what we put down here. I'd be willing to bet if we were sitting across from each other we could discuss, it would become political, we would most likely still disagree but we could have conversation. Here not looking each other in the eye not going to happen. The divide is so great between us today we won't even consider what the other side has to say.
    Searching the fields of NW Indiana and SW Michigan

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    • #5
      Unfortunately Charlie - Everyone has an agenda. Whether it's Trump, the Native American's, the Conservationists - whatever, they all have an agenda and right, wrong or indifferent, it will always become political. I truly understand your point but that point is only the tip of a much larger iceberg lurking below the surface. Let's all smoke the Peace Pipe and go hunt some arrowheads!!!
      Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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      • #6
        Turning the surplus lands from from the reduction in size of Bears Ears back over to the State of Utah for Utah to make its own decisions is a good thing in my opinion. It does not mean there are back hoes and bucket loaders waiting at the border. It means the state of Utah will now govern what happens to the land within its borders. Myself I would much rather smoke the peace pipe go arrowhead hunting. It seems better for us as a forum group to skip debate on the issue because a debate here solves nothing, It would change nothing as far as the Monument goes. It only further devides us as good people. Click image for larger version

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        TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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        • CMD
          CMD commented
          Editing a comment
          They are not being turned over to the state of Utah. Though no longer in the Monument, pending judicial review obviously, the land remains federal land.

      • #7
        The Friends of Cedar Mesa wish to develop a visitor center that will seek to educate what are bound to be many folks uneducated in "how" to visit Bears Ears. It is a scared landscape to many of the region's tribes, 5 of whom were granted a significant role it its management, as well as their right to continue to engage in traditional activities in the Monument. Cedar Mesa itself contains the densest concentration of archaeological sites. It will be left out of the proposed new boundaries of the national monument:

        friendsofcedarmesa.org is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, friendsofcedarmesa.org has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

        Last edited by CMD; 12-08-2017, 02:15 PM.
        Rhode Island

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