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AWIARE and the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society meeting discuss recent excavations at the 7200-year old Offshore Burial Site site (8SO7030)

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  • AWIARE and the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society meeting discuss recent excavations at the 7200-year old Offshore Burial Site site (8SO7030)

    This is about that submerged cemetery just south of Tampa Bay that was in the news a year ago or so...
    The exact spot has been off limits for diving/fossil hunting while excavations are ongoing.

    AWIARE and the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society are pleased to present Dr. Ryan Duggins, Florida Bureau of Archeaological Research, who will discuss the results of recent excavations at the Manasota Key Offshore site (8SO7030), a 7200-year old Native American burial site in what appears to have been a freshwater peat-bottomed pond thousands of years ago. The site is now inundated in the Gulf of Mexico. The lecture is at 7 PM, thursday, April 25 at the Weedon Island Cultural and Natural History Center on Weedon Island Preserve.


    We also will have dinner with the speaker before the lecture at Miller's Ale House, 7901 Dr M.L.K. Jr St N, St. Petersburg, FL 33702, at 5 PM.


    Hope to see everyone tomorrow night.
    Last edited by tomclark; 04-17-2019, 04:36 PM.
    Professor Shellman

  • #2
    I tried driving down but only made it to Chattanooga LOL I hope it was a great event my friend.
    TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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    • #3
      Excited to hear the outcome....😮

      Comment


      • #4
        It's the size of a football field with burials everywhere. They are eroding out from Hurricanes last years....and they don't expect the cemetery to last. It is just offhshore and bones will be washing up on the beach. The burials are mostly flexed and pinned down with branches in the now offshore bog/pond much like the Windover Site where they found similar type pond burials. Very few artifacts... The site is marked off with buoys and signs. Perishable items are being found such as cordage and fabric...it was not realized previously that such material would be preserved in wet/saltwater sites like this.

        Ya, Windover Site with brain material preserved and intricate fabrics dating to Early Archaic here 6000-5000BC
        This submerged site is same age, still Early Archaic @ 7200 years old. Could be same people for sure.
        Last edited by tomclark; 04-21-2019, 04:36 PM.
        Professor Shellman

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        • Von
          Von commented
          Editing a comment
          That’s really interesting. I read about this site when it was discovered but didn’t read about it being similar to the Windover site on the Atlantic coast. Maybe their culture or at least the territory it covered was fairly large?

          Von

      • #5
        I’m chomping at the bit!!!

        How did the meeting go??? New information???

        Bryan

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        • #6
          https://www.archaeology.org/news/765...rwater-burials

          Here’s some new information. I don’t get why the Indian tribes have an issue with DNA testing? We already know the Windover Bog People are not related to any known tribe. Given the type of burials here it’s possible and even likely that these ancient folks are not related either.

          Von

          Last edited by Von; 05-16-2019, 09:41 PM.

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          • #7
            Thanks, Von!
            Professor Shellman

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            • #8
              Professor,

              I’m totally amazed that this isn’t the hottest thread on this forum? This off shore burial ground and the one in Titusville are bar none the most important archeological sites in North America!

              I don't care if these ancient folks are European, African, Polynesian, Asian or from Mars, Venus or one of Jupiter’s moons. The facts about the DNA needs to be published to everyone.

              The truth isn’t political. It’s just the truth.

              Von

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              • #9
                Originally posted by Von View Post
                https://www.archaeology.org/news/765...rwater-burials

                Here’s some new information. I don’t get why the Indian tribes have an issue with DNA testing? We already know the Windover Bog People are not related to any known tribe. Given the type of burials here it’s possible and even likely that these ancient folks are not related either.

                Von
                Well, the issue of DNA testing by Native Americans is pretty complex. These articles may shed some light on that subject.

                https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...esting/384740/


                https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2...loitation-dna/


                https://web.williams.edu/AnthSoc/nat...ick%20_dna.pdf
                Rhode Island

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                • #10
                  I completely understand why any group or individual might have a problem with DNA testing. I don’t understand why those same folks have a problem with DNA testing of 8000 year old human remains? I like to think the folks buried in the Windover bog and off shore near Tampa have some relatives that are alive and well in this country but maybe not? They very well could have been wiped out by all kinds of different things? The only chance of ever knowing is through the DNA.

                  Von

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Von View Post
                    I completely understand why any group or individual might have a problem with DNA testing. I don’t understand why those same folks have a problem with DNA testing of 8000 year old human remains? I like to think the folks buried in the Windover bog and off shore near Tampa have some relatives that are alive and well in this country but maybe not? They very well could have been wiped out by all kinds of different things? The only chance of ever knowing is through the DNA.

                    Von
                    I can only speculate, and that isn't worth a whole lot. I recall in the case of Kennewick Man, the remains did not "look" Native American. Yet, the DNA proved that the closest living relatives was the tribe living near where the remains were found. This finding was used to argue that actual physical evolution must have occurred in this hemisphere. As to why First Nation people might object to testing ancient remains, perhaps fear that the remains would undermine their own claims to being there first?? Even the Solutrean hypothesis has been "misused" by white nationalists, so I can appreciate where there might be concerns of that sort.

                    Anyway, I have had an impossible time "breaking into" any scientific studies of the Windover bog people, because I wanted to learn more about the DNA studies. I find sites emphasizing the non-native nature of the DNA, and I wanted to learn more. What I did find was a long interview of Dr. Rachel Wentz, author of "Life and Death at Windover". I have never heard of this talk show. It seems to be focused on paranormal things, judging by the intro, and ending. But, it turned out to be a decent interview. She stated she wrote the book to explain Windover to non scientists. I have not read the book, obviously, but I guess she is qualified to discuss the site, and this interview was better then nothing certainly.

                    Now, from about the 21:50 mark to the 24.05 mark, she briefly touches on the DNA after one of the guys mentions that Scott Wolter, of the TV series "America Unearthed" had featured Windover in an episode, and claimed a European connection for the remains. Now, I expect sensationalism from Wolter, and have had differences of opinion with his interpretation of the so-called Narragansett Runestone, from RI, the publication of which I had some involvement in, so I am a bit cautious where any of his claims are concerned. I'm not the biggest fan of the History Network, or its sister network's "pop archaeology" shows.

                    Anyway, it was of interest to hear her say the preliminary DNA studies were incorrect in saying a haplogroup found was European, that it was in fact Asian. She states flat out that there was no connection of the Windover remains with European ancestry. That the haplogroup in question actually originated in Asia, though it appeared in Europe eventually. I am no authority on any such studies but it was of interest to hear her dispute the "not related to living Native Americans" theory. But still, I don't think she would make such claims if they were unfounded. So, listening to her made me realize the belief that the remains are non-native is a controversial claim, which I imagine would be expected anyway, afterall, but it has proven next to impossible to find good info from any scientific literature. Still, she has some experience with the site, and so this interview may be of interest.

                    Last edited by CMD; 05-20-2019, 12:52 PM.
                    Rhode Island

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                    • #12
                      The 5300 year old mummy they found in the Alps named Ötzi has 19 living male relatives in the general area where he was found. No doubt the Indians in Florida were displaced and many died but there are still many Indians and other folks in the southeastern US that could be related to these ancient people. The only way to ever know is to release the DNA and allow it to be compared to all the information that has been acquired through voluntary genetic testing. I certainly would like to see how it compares to the Cherokee.

                      Von

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