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  • #31
    Bill wrote:

    Awww Butch I'm may be an old Southern country boy but I ain't never killed no Hogs. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
    You don't know what you're missing Bill. It's a great opportunity for the neighbors to get together Tip the jug, chew tobacco, spit and tell some bigg'uns. 

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    • #32
      Ha ha,Cgode you funny and awesome but I am afraid that you completely missed it earlier because I said yep, the first people to see North America were boat people who sailed down the Pacific coast and probably back up too. I guess you must have missed that somehow.
      You are really a funny guy and keep me laughing most of the time, Supermen, really? Drs. Stanford and Bradley would get a hoot out of being called Supermen thanks man, you do have the jokes. 
      The DNA evidence is what it is and in case you missed it let me reiterate that I believe that the first people to see North America were boat people from Asia.   
      Oh and again just for you, that book you should read is Across Atlantic Ice way to go man I am loving it.

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      • #33
        Heyyy Butch that sounds great to me. :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

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        • #34
          Bill wrote:

             
          Oh and again just for you, that book you should read is Across Atlantic Ice way to go man I am loving it.
          Oh man, thanks Bill.....I had forgotten which book it was! :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
          Southern Connecticut

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          • #35
            [QUOTE]cgode wrote:

            Originally posted by Bill post=50307
             
            Oh and again just for you, that book you should read is Across Atlantic Ice way to go man I am loving it.
            Oh man, thanks Bill.....I had forgotten which book it was! :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
              Chris, I'm busy writing a new book myself! The tentative title will be "Psychological Projection as Manifested in Archaeological Arguments." Not that catchy, I know, but I'm finding a ton of material on the subject :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
            Rhode Island

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            • #36
              Awww that’s all right gal, a little distrust is good and I am not offended.    
              I appreciate that you acknowledge that I am free to believe the Clovis from Solutrean hypothesis so it’s all good. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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              • #37
                [QUOTE]CMD wrote:

                [quote=cgode post=50310]
                Originally posted by Bill post=50307
                 
                Oh and again just for you, that book you should read is Across Atlantic Ice way to go man I am loving it.
                Oh man, thanks Bill.....I had forgotten which book it was! :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
                  Chris, I'm busy writing a new book myself! The tentative title will be "Psychological Projection as Manifested in Archaeological Arguments." Not that catchy, I know, but I'm finding a ton of material on the subject :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
                  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  I want a signed copy Charlie!!
                Southern Connecticut

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                • #38
                  Butch Wilson wrote:

                  Congratulations Charlie, I had to chuckle when you posted this. Even as a Carolina hillbilly, I have been to enough "Knife Swappin's" and "Hog Killin's" to know when someone is being baited.  :laugh: After all "Carpetbaggers" have been trying to sneak up on us down here since 1865 !
                    But Butch, you southern boys got your revenge sending all those "scaliwags" north in 1865 :laugh:  :laugh:
                  Rhode Island

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                  • #39
                    Aw you are the greatest man. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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                    • #40
                      ha ha, cgode I am loving it. You are a natural man, you gotta take it to Vegas! :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

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                      • #41
                        Just to even up the score a bit and emphasise that Stanford and Bradley don’t have the only view. This chart gives some insight into entry routes of Palaeo-Indians from Beringia based on the observed age and distribution of the rare haplogroup C4c and its relationship to haplogroup X2a. It’s from:
                        Mitochondrial Haplogroup C4c: A Rare Lineage Entering America Through the Ice-Free Corridor? - Kashani, Perego, Olivieri, Angerhofer, Gandini, Carossa, Lancioni, Semino, Woodward, Achilli -and- Torroni [Am J Phys Anthropol 147:35–39, 2012]

                        For which the abstract reads (with my emphasis in bold):
                        “Recent analyses of mitochondrial genomes from Native Americans have brought the overall number of recognized maternal founding lineages from just four to a current count of 15. However, because of their relative low frequency, almost nothing is known for some of these lineages. This leaves a considerable void in understanding the events that led to the colonization of the Americas following the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). In this study, we identified and completely sequenced 14 mitochondrial DNAs belonging to one extremely rare Native American lineage known as haplogroup C4c. Its age and geographical distribution raise the possibility that C4c marked the Paleo-Indian group(s) that entered North America from Beringia through the ice-free corridor between the Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets.The similarities in ages and geographical distributions for C4c and the previously analyzed X2a lineage provide support to the scenario of a dual origin for Paleo-Indians. Taking into account that C4c is deeply rooted in the Asian portion of the mtDNA phylogeny and is indubitably of Asian origin, the finding that C4c and X2a are characterized by parallel genetic histories definitively dismisses the controversial hypothesis of an Atlantic glacial entry route into North America.”
                        (Charlie: thanks for your original post)
                        I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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                        • #42
                          I felt I should also draw your attention to my forthcoming book Under Atlantic Water in which I establish a [strike]theory[/strike] proven connection between the Capsian people of Northwest Africa and the Mound Builders of Texas. My research didn’t identify any mounds as such in Africa but that’s either because sand is an unsuitable material or they got blown away by the wind.
                          Although there is no evidence of a seafaring tradition in Capsian cultures, the beauty of my [strike]theory[/strike] proven connection, as laid out in Under Atlantic Water is that it doesn’t require the Capsians to have had boats – just a knowledge of tunnelling. There’s plenty of evidence for that in my book Under Atlantic Water. The Capsians dug holes everywhere, like this one (picture from my forthcoming book Under Atlantic Water).

                          You’ll find holes just like this all over Texas too. But more than that, look at these pictures from Under Atlantic Water which show Texas bird-points from the New Mexico border area (top pics), with Capsian points from the Saharan region (below). These were not dredged up by a trawler from uncertain deposits. They have an impeccable heritage (Jack/Greywolf’s collection and my collection respectively).

                           

                          These are of course not coincidences of lithic similarity arising from independent development. They are conclusive proof that Capsian people from Northwest Africa tunnelled their way under the Atlantic to become the founding population for the Mississippian culture (which I propose should be renamed the Missafrican) in coastal Texas, as detailed in my forthcoming book Under Atlantic Water.
                          I know that my critics will say the genetic and DNA haplogroup evidence is inconclusive, the linguistic trait parallels are absent, the cultural behaviours exhibit few similarities and the dates for the two industries only overlap slightly at the extremes, but those bird-points are not just similar – they’re identical.
                          The proof is all laid out in my forthcoming book Under Atlantic Water. But where is the tunnel I hear you say? Well, sea levels have changed a lot since then. The main entrance at the African end and the exit in Texas are now under water of course (where the coastline used to be), but you can see where they used to be on the maps in my book Under Atlantic Water.
                          I fully expect that the blinkered among you will venomously criticise my book Under Atlantic Water in the same way that Stanford’s Across Atlantic Ice was criticised. Reviews like this from David Meltzer, for example: “If Solutrean boat people washed up on our shores, they suffered cultural amnesia, genetic amnesia, dental amnesia, linguistic amnesia and skeletal amnesia”. But I am not disheartened. If the sea level ever drops again then you’ll all be feeling pretty foolish not to have believed me from the outset.
                          Did I mention that my forthcoming book is called Under Atlantic Water? I’m taking advance pre-publication orders for Under Atlantic Water now ($25 by international money order or used notes in the hollow tree). An “Ice is Nice but Tunnels are Better” publication. All rights reserved.
                          You’re welcome.
                          I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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                          • #43
                            Thanks for posting this information Pain. I have already read about this it is pretty cool in general.
                            One of the problems inherent in genetic data and validity is always is it telling the complte story. I believed we have already discussed this in another thread of perhaps another website. I like DNA data because in its best form it is what is and can clarify who what and where.
                            Ten years ago when I became interested in Paleoindians and the first Americans I hoped the new area (then it was new!) of  Biological Archaeology would really fufill the gaps and missing pieces the archaeology couldn't.
                            That was ten years ago and I'm still waiting. It seems that that are gaps caused by incomplete biological data sets in this area that mirrors the gaps in the archaeology.

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                            • #44
                              Aw no Pain you have no critics because you in your funny madcap, clownish style are just the one to keep us all laughing.
                              Ha ha I love it, "digging tunnels", "under water"; what a clever wit and to think, you actually spent time coming up with something this funny.
                              I know you keep me constantly chuckling, grinning and laughing out loud. What a character you are. :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Bill wrote:

                                Thanks for posting this information Pain. I have already read about this it is pretty cool in general.
                                One of the problems inherent in genetic data and validity is always is it telling the complte story. I believed we have already discussed this in another thread of perhaps another website. I like DNA data because in its best form it is what is and can clarify who what and where.
                                Ten years ago when I became interested in Paleoindians and the first Americans I hoped the new area (then it was new!) of  Biological Archaeology would really fufill the gaps and missing pieces the archaeology couldn't.
                                That was ten years ago and I'm still waiting. It seems that that are gaps caused by incomplete biological data sets in this area that mirrors the gaps in the archaeology.
                                  But seriously, though what you fail to understand about the science of genetics is that it can fill in the gaps because it's possible to track the progression of mutations and the effects of "cross-breeding". It's true to say that an incomplete data set is an incomplete data set and a piece of the picture may be missing, but whenever you have a start point and an end point (ideally with something in between) you can "join the dots" and make conclusions that are pretty irrefutable.
                                I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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