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  • Just wondering

    Just wondered why so many drilled pendants and ataltl weights are more often found broken then whole and both pieces are usually never recovered. Why would these particular pieces have broke being they are really not subject to heavy work such as other tools we find? You think these artifacts could have had other uses that we are over looking? This may sound a bit crazy but ive made a few ataltl's and they are not very accurate over 20 yards and im sure they wounded most  everything they hit and then pursued chase.. Its pretty much been proven that the weight on the ataltl does not increase the speed or accuracy of the dart so im wondering if it may have also been used as a club to expire the wounded animal..  I throw my ataltl all the time and i just cant see how these weights could brake so im just thinking maybe there were other uses associated with these artifacts..Thanks.
    My liberty and freedoms are not yours to give or take!.... They didn\'t make us free we were born free, as long as we have the 2nd amendment we will remain free!

  • #2
    Perhaps they were symbolic of medicine bundles or deer lungs.

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    • #3
      I believe the reason most surface found bannerstone are broke is because of the elements,  those drilled holes fill up with water and in the winter they bust due to freezing. It's a long hard life, laying in or on the ground for thousands of years. Many fine examples exist with little to no damage at all. Just getting harder to find these days :dunno:
      Josh (Ky/Tn collector)

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      • #4
        Not sure where to begin. But if they were used as a counter weight it would be universal. and that is not the case. Make and point is the Clovis point. JMO
        Look to the ground for it holds the past!

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        • #5
          Agree with KFG and add in equipment, tractors and combines the size of houses, discs, plows mold boards.
          Searching the fields of NW Indiana and SW Michigan

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          • #6
            I understand alot of them are broken just from years being in the ground plus add in the equipment but they seem to find alot of broken ones inside rock shelters and only one half.. wonder why a pendent or banner stone  breaks inside a rock shelter? why woundnt they find the other half.? yes maybe the ancient one tossed one piece outside the rock shelter but it just seems unlikely to me that a strong slate pendant would just break hanging around someones neck.. Just thinking out loud guys.   Seems that a lot us collectors only believe what we have read and im just trying to think out side the box..
            My liberty and freedoms are not yours to give or take!.... They didn\'t make us free we were born free, as long as we have the 2nd amendment we will remain free!

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            • #7
              I think about this subject a lot. It is a great topic HVS.

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              At the outside edge of the atlatl shown the measurement is 9/16" When I move the caliper all the way into the opening the measurement is only 7/16" The atalatl wood shaft itself would have to be something that does not change much with the weather. Just getting the wood wet once it is inside that atlatl weight changes the entire dynamic of things. The wood can swell and then to throw it once swelled the flex of the shaft could actually snap an atlatl in half if it snaps while the throws is in motion part of the stone may travel with the with the dart and part stay with the hunter. or if the hunter tried a snap shot and did not have clearance and hit a branch breaking the stone some could have flown away and some fell right at his feet. I think a million things could come into play where it would break in two of more pieces and be separated while on the hunt. Being Survivalists from birth they learned to salvage what ever they could so they would carry what could be found back to a warm dry place .
              You said you made one and throw it all the time. Cool what kind of wood did you use? Can we see a picture of it? I had a nice one back in CT but I have not been able to find mine since I moved.
              TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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              • #8
                Great explanation hoss. thank you .. I carved this latest one out of a cedar limb wanted to use something hard enough to stand up to the force of the trowing motion yet soft enough to carve with a knife without killing myself.. Its nothing to fancy but it really chucks the darts pretty nice.. The dart is about 7' long made out of river cane..

                My liberty and freedoms are not yours to give or take!.... They didn\'t make us free we were born free, as long as we have the 2nd amendment we will remain free!

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                • #9
                  Very nice job on that. Thanks for sharing the picture.Everything just theory on my part we were not there so I am as perplexed as you. Like I said though a great subject. It just fascinates me when I look at an atlatl weight how they worked. How did they do that when the stick part is in full flex why did it not just break the stone. Is the hole a tiny bit larger at the edge to accommodate the flex? Maybe they chose wood that did not flex much and the flex was all in the dart shaft. As you thrust it forward the dart shaft would flex then the stored energy in the flexed shaft would release as inertia upon full flight when the shaft goes back to straight. ?
                  Just one of those " how did they do that?"  moments in my mind.
                  TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                  • #10
                    I have to agree that mother nature damages most even those with chip and flakes.  Moisture will concentrate along laminae and freeze cleaving the flake.  also pressures applied by burial can stress a piece and cause it to break.  I am convinced that many of the large "killed" blades broke natually due to burial pressures being different across the surface.  I have only found one bannerstone, slate, about 75% complete. and many more broken fragments.  Another consideration is that these items may have been passed through generations such that you may have decades of wear and tear on a piece.

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                    • #11
                      I agree I feel a lot of material was handed down trough families Especially something like this where it was not easy to make or acquire raw  materials for.

                      I was with my Dad when he dug this piece. A shame it is broken. No telling what became of the rest of this atlatl but just look at how thin that barrel was? The tallies are simply amazing. The work that went into creating this had to be in the hundreds of hours. It is items like this that make me think they were passed down family heirlooms so to speak.
                      TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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