Typology Question

[Sugaree]

So I was looking through our NC general typology section and noticed some dates that raised some questions. This is a link to the Warren Wilson typology site which is a great list of NC mountain types "the Appalachian summit area." The main reason for this post is the dates given for the Hardaway Dalton point 11,000-8,500 BP compared to Clovis 9,800-9,400BP. Am I reading this right Hardaway Daltons go back 1,200 years before Clovis? My main question is this not out dated? Am I not reading this right? I do know where some of these dates originated from but it was from the early 60's. Just wanted to point this out. Also want to thank Greg for all the work on our typology section you rock!

[Hoss]

It could just be a typo. Not everything on the internet is true and perfect. If you look at the unfluted clovis the dates are earlier . I am pretty sure Clovis dates have been recorded and are closer to 13,000 and 11,500 BP.

[Sugaree]

So true Hoss!! Warren Wilson has a top notch arc program so I've always wondered? Just a random thing I noticed thanks! You could not get a better list of NC Mountain types anywhere just a strange date?

[Kyflintguy]

Yeah many older references are great for identification but dates are ever evolving seems...

[Taterman421]

https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/...-types-general
I found this older discussion. The dates stated in this discussion says the Clovis culture was 9500-8500 BC. That is the same as 11000-10000 BP am I right? I believe that they got mixed up and got the Clovis and Hardaway Dalton crossed up on them dates. There can be confusion between the Before Present and Before Christ units. Archeological studies generally use Before Present (years old) I thought.

[Sugaree]

I do have some books about about the Baucom Hardaway site that gives this older date. But I see that the father of NC archeology Joffre Coe is where the date comes from. And dates were not as known and accurate back then. It just surprised me to still see this date on the Warren Wilson web site. It does list an email address for corrections and changes. The listed email is the head of the program there. I have his book my favorite. He is also in charge of the Berry site. The Berry site was the earliest European settlement in the interior US. Just thought it was strange that it's still listed like that. I'm not emailing though.

[Taterman421]

There are two Hardaway sites. The one on the West Bank of the Yadkin River in Badin. The other one is in Union County just south of the Rocky River. I've been by that and talked to locals about it. Supposively, a farmer on his tractor dropped down into a 11 ft hole and there was how the Baucom Hardaway site was discovered. Is that legend or actually holds some truth?

[Sugaree]

The Baucom Hardaway site was discovered by Heath W Baucom by removing fill dirt from on old road bed. Cool book about the site is Hardaway Origins and adaptations by Rodney Peck lots controversial dates and theries regarding Hardaway and Clovis evolving separately and Hardaway being older. It's a cool read but outdated and proven wrong?

[Hoss]

They may have used dates presented in papers back in the 40's 50's or even 60's when creating the page. If you look in the handbook of Alabama Archaeology they use 9250 as one reference http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39974...-h.htm#Page_25

It also states in the header for Clovis that they used (Suhm, Krieger and Jelks, 1954): as a reference. They took the information used in a 1954 study and used it in their description. When it come to dates and typology the information that has been presented has evolved and I am sure it will continue to evolve. No one person could ever know all there is to know about this science. It is ever changing. New discoveries are made all the time and new techniques are discovered to help interpret the findings of those discoveries