What is baker paper?

[Notarelichunter]

ive been looking at relic show websites and most state that fakes and baker paper not allowed. I have spent much time looking for baker paper in Overstreet Indian arrowheads guide book, have done a search on this forum and did a google search. I just can’t find anything why bakers paper would have anything to do with relics. Anyone know what this is. Thanks from a newbie

[BabaORiley]

I believe what you saw was a reference to Baker COA's aka certificate of authenticity or Baker Papers. I am not any type of authority on authenticating pieces but I know that many people disregard the validity of said COA's. I have never had any personal experience with it but I am sure we have some folks on here that can give a better explanation than I can. However I have heard of butcher paper. I have a roll of it in my kitchen.

[Notarelichunter]

Thanks Baba! I’m learning something new here everyday.

[willjo]

If you do a search on Baker authenticator you will see some information about him. There is a section on this form about Certificates of Authenticity also by painshill. Those are papers by some one that says an artifact is real. I do not care for them because to much stuff that is not real has a COA. I find all my stuff so I don't need some one else to tell me that it is real. I have seen collections that are almost to good to be true and a good possibility it is. Apparently those people that listed that consider him un reliable, I have had no contact with a Baker coa because I don't buy high dollar points. I have bought some broke points and cheep points that I would not find.

[Notarelichunter]

Thanks willjo, went back and searched again using certificates of authenticity and read some good stuff. Those relic show sites not very helpful for newcomers. Thanks for your help.

[tomclark]

IMHOP that guy is about the worst of the worst regarding COA's. IMHOP he has damaged this hobby almost irreparably. Certainly would never consider for anything in FL. This is from seeing way too many COA's on EBAY from him and discussions about said feller on all the forums over years.

[Notarelichunter]

Thanks for the heads up Tom. Don’t do Ebay but I need to go and look at his stuff later on.

[Scorpion68]

NARH - My first thought was Fake COA's and it appears that I was probably correct.

[Notarelichunter]

Thanks for the comeback Chuck, I don’t know how they fake a COA. But I’m going to do more reading and web surfing to find out. Thanks for all your help. Appreciate it.

[Broken Arrow]

NARH, its not so much that the COA is fake, its more like they aren't credible bc they will paper anything.

[Havenhunter]

Most experienced artifact hunters & collectors who may occasionally buy to augment their collections will tell you to line your birdcage with a Baker COA!
Deb

[TSUMS]

You mean a Faker Paper lol.. I dont care for COA'S...I do have one coa from overstreet/Sam cox for a big fox creek from Pennsylvania...its a legit paper..

[CMD]

Perino papers used to be faked. Because he was so respected while his eyesight was still good. If you search under Clovis points in the pre-1600 section of eBay, you will see many ridiculously fake points, yet it seems they all carry Baker COA's.

Just about all COA's, from whomever, there are so many authenticators now, will say some version of "In my opinion I believe this point is authentic based on my experience". The seller may offer a guarentee, but the authenticator doesn't. Some of these guys just go over to the dark side, knowing they can't be held accountable for "in my opinion".

[TSUMS]

I recently purchased a clovis from Gary Fogelman...he is the only one I would trust buying a clovis from..

[pkfrey]

Terry! Come on, Gary is the " only " one? What am I, a piece of fly poop? LOL!!!!

[Broken Arrow]

Paul, I'd send my artifacts to you if I were wanting to get any of them papered. If I were looking to buy you would definitely be one of the people I would trust buying from. There's been a couple times I've thought about sending you a big bag of flakes and debitage, from single site, to get your analysis and see if my thoughts match yours.

[pkfrey]

BA, Your more than welcome to if you would like an opinion on what your finding. Just include a little return postage. Send me a PM and I'll send you my address, unless you have it. Thx, Paul

[Notarelichunter]

I want to give out a big “thank you” to everyone who responded and set me straight on what baker paper is. I now know. I’ve learned much in the past week from this forum, from looking at fake arrowheads on Utube, and I did visit eBay. I learned that folks who know their relics can spot fakes in cases at trade and relic shows. Makes me think twice now about going to the relic show next month.

[tomclark]

I haven't been to an artifact show in probably 20 years. I wouldn't mind if it were just collectors hanging and showing, maybe trading with each other but I have a big problem with public shows with sales and merch along with all the fakes. To each is own...

[TSUMS]

Paul I haven't seen you offer alot of Clovis points..

[pkfrey]

Give it time, in the near future!! And they all have Baker papers!!!!!

[Andy W.]

I just wanted to add that Baker isn't the only one papering fakes. Remember the surfboard Clovis🤣

[chase]

The problem is it requires no formal training to paper artifacts and no governing board to hold accountability for those who authentic. The closest we got was the AACA which got into a legal battle over calling out a person over a COA

[pkfrey]

There are are actually a very people in the country who have the ability, education, and training to look at artifacts, and offer a very intelligent and ethical evaluation. These folks however, will restrict what they look at to the area/region that they are familiar with, and most don't charge for an " opinion ", with the exception of return postage. The other 98% of " authenticators " are simply in it for the money, they couldn't care less if they're right or wrong. There's very little recourse for an inaccurate COA. The way to help stop this isn't to get these authenticators to just stop doing it, the collectors have to start educating themselves and stop relying on other opinions. Authenticating any artifact really isn't rocket science, but the collector does have to put time and effort into self education. and BUY A MICROSCOPE, and learn how to use it. This COA problem is getting worse, which means asking people to start educating themselves seems like it's going in one ear and out the other. Collectors need to know what area they are collecting from. Read some books and learn what cultures lived in your collecting area. If someone handed me a Hopewell pipestone effigy pipe, and said they just found it in Berks Co., Pa., ( close to my area ),guess what, a dozen red flags go up! Learn what types of artifacts should be found in that area. Then, learn what lithic sources would be used in his/her area. If you know what cultures lived in your collecting area, that will tell you what you should expect to be finding, but also, what you won't find. It is, in fact, not complicated, but it takes some time and effort. If collectors continue to rely on $20 opinions, the COA business will just keep growing and getting worse, but this seems to be the trend, and I just don't get it.

[Notarelichunter]

Excellent advice and I will be looking at microscopes. Just wish the relic community had top three authentication companies like the coin collector community has such as PCGS, NGC and ANACS.

[pkfrey]

Look at this way. For the price of 6 COAs, ( which is wasted money! ) you could have bought your own microscope! Check out AmScope.com. They have excellent microscopes very reasonably priced. You don't need an expensive one. A student binocular scope with 15X - 60X is plenty, and costs less than most people spend on a good artifact! But under a scope, the surface of an artifact is another world! It's amazing what you can, or don't see. After you learn what to look for, you can authenticate an artifact in about 7 seconds or less!!