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What the heck am I looking at?

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  • What the heck am I looking at?


    2.5” Long x 1 1/8” Wide

    Buffalo River chert?

    Hi Guys, I was checking out some of my points and this one was Given to me. If you look at the pictures it has a nice smooth Patina. The Mineral Deposits are even nice 3d with halos.
    The question is what the Heck is the Wire looking threads. They are on the front and back, keep in mind this is extreme magnification, around 45x.
    Last edited by c_venture; 05-30-2019, 10:28 AM.

  • #2
    Interesting. If you use a needle, can you scrap them off or are they under the coating? Are they stiff or flexible? I've seen wire brush and brillo pads shed hairs. I'd try to clean a spot with acetone and a q-tip. See if the patina comes off or if the q-tip picks up the gunk.

    The first option is the piece is bad, or a rechip, or something like that. (It doesn't look bad to me.)

    Another option was that it was just heavily cleaned, it might have the little tinsel like "hairs" from a brillo pad and it could have a coating on it. Someone might have varnished the collection or it could have just gunk built up from bad quality air & dust. (Pieces near a woodburning stove or fireplace, pieces from a collector who chain-smoked, etc.)

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    • #3
      I have a big blade with some of the same material in
      your 2nd pic.It seems to be embedded in the stone and this was a personal find so I know it was not an applied finish. My buddy asked if I had any change or anything in my pocket that would transfer a metal looking streak. I told him no way cause the blade took up my whole back pocket. The Mark's on my piece look like they are part of the chert not on surface. Curious to what others say.

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      • #4
        Hi c_venture I'm really not sure but they do remind me of moss rhizoids.

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        • #5
          The point does look good to me. Cleaning it up could clear up your mystery
          My name is Gary. I live in NE South Dakota

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          • #6
            Well, it’s been my experience that the older something gets, that hair just starts growing from unusual places....! JJ

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            • c_venture
              c_venture commented
              Editing a comment
              LOL, almost fell out of my chair

          • #7
            You cant see any of the "hairs / metal" with your naked eye. I really think it is varnished? Just fyi, i did clean it off with hot water before the pictures and i swabbed the surface with acetone and no change to patina..

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            • #8
              In my opinion it is a modern piece. Something was applied like a wax and that stuck to some felt in a previous frame and bacame coated with the wax. If the point was waxed and stored in a frame in a warm place truck of a car, shed< attic, or even was just at an outdoor show it would soften the wax and the felt fibers would draw it in. Sorry to break the news but I am pretty certain it is modern. Run water on the point and see if it beads up. Natural rock will soak it in if oiled or waxed water will repel. Never use a steel pin in my opinion either a wood toothpick or a plastic one works just fine. Lay the point in the sun for a bit then use a tooth pick to see if that stuff moves . I bet it will
              Last edited by Hoss; 04-30-2019, 12:08 PM.
              TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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              • clovisoid
                clovisoid commented
                Editing a comment
                Good point about the needle/pin.

              • Hoss
                Hoss commented
                Editing a comment
                It is just a matter of opinion. I really like the toothpics from Cracker Barrel. They have a nice point on them. This was a pro tip I heard from Jim Bennett at on of his authentication seminars.

            • #9
              Well, when I got home from work, I did let some warm / hot water run on it and it didn't bead up as i expected, The stone did absorb some water. I let it sit in a glass of water for a couple hours and nothing really changed. I got the asatone and gently swabbed pretty much the whole piece. lastly got a soft brissel tooth brush and gently scrubbed the whole piece under warm water. really no change the mineral deposits still look 3d over the whole piece. finish dosent seem to Move or change what so ever. But the little Wre looking hairs still remain. Go figure!

              Comment


              • Hoss
                Hoss commented
                Editing a comment
                try taking pictures of that same spot you show in the first picture please.

            • #10
              Hi hoss, It was more difficult than i thought to find the same spot. So in your opinion do you think the mineral deposits look normal? Just curious.

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              • Lindenmeier-Man
                Lindenmeier-Man commented
                Editing a comment
                I don’t know what to make of that.. I’d say you’ve done enough to clean it up...I see plenty of oxidation from iron on the lithic material.. Some things in my experience, well the answer is there is no answer... JJ

              • c_venture
                c_venture commented
                Editing a comment
                Yes sir I completely get that, That is what I like about this forum. Everybody can give their opinions and we can all learn something. The one item I did find out about that piece I did not know was, It was glued down to a frame for a long time.

            • #11
              I didn't see this topic before. Those little metallic " fibers " are probably from a wire buffing wheel. The type wheel used a lot to remove rust from metal items, like gun parts, old axes, maybe a long bolt, but the wheel is like a wire brush, only in wheel form and used on a grinding machine.
              http://www.ravensrelics.com/

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              • #12
                When I went to buy some acetone to remove old labels written on some points, the fingernail polish remover section contained some with acetone, other types were 'acetone-free.' Are you sure you have acetone? Secondly, I had to really scrub the old labels with acetone soaked Q-tip, and even then all the old ink did not come off. I actually soaked an entire point directly in acetone for a few minutes. If this were my piece, I would use a acetone soaked Q-tip and really have at one section where I know there are metal fibers. Just a swipe might not do it. Something is holding those metal fibers in place!

                Also, I'm not sure your piece exhibits proper 'halos' around iron deposits: an authentic halo in Bennett's book is pictured as close to 360 degree band around an iron deposit. 'One-Sided' halos, lop-sided halos, are a sign of artificial mineralization / deception. A rust-grease mixture applied, perhaps heated, on the piece. see Bennett page 250-51.

                At any rate, comments by Hoss and Paul pretty much sum up this piece. I still think it is interesting to study the techniques of atifakers.
                Last edited by Cmcramer; 05-26-2019, 06:48 AM.
                Cayuga County, NY Finger Lakes Region

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                • tomclark
                  tomclark commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Good comment about nail polish removers that have no acetone....some nail polish removers with acetone have other crap in them... gotta make sure it's pure acetone. IMHOP best to just buy acetone if not sure. Keep cap on TIGHT! It will leak/evaporate out at fairly low temps for sure. Leave in the garage/shop/shed with the muriatic acid lol. Don't handle acetone with your hands without rubber gloves or tongs/tweezers the stuff can give you liver cancer. Don't breath it in. It evaporates so quick most people don't think much of it or wrongly equate it with alcohol evaporation. It's easy to prevent exposure but you have to do it.
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