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Question on Patina & Mineral deposits & Hinge Factures

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  • Question on Patina & Mineral deposits & Hinge Factures

    Hi guys, As I am going through all my Pieces with a scope. I have run across a couple that have nice Patina but no mineral deposits. Is that something that could occur?

    Also I have one piece that was purchased from a dealer that was very confident that the Piece was "Authentic" nice Patina but has numerous hinge fractures. It does look like the Patina has leached under the fractures. I can post some pictures later this eve. Thanks for the help!

    Posted pictures., Location Tenn

    Hey PK (Paul) =I think it is another number 3 in your theory...
    Attached Files
    Last edited by c_venture; 05-23-2019, 09:09 PM.

  • #2
    Hey c_venture....I'm just figuring this whole microscopic inspection topic out, too, and have limited experience. But Bennett does say that patina under hinge fractures, "under-patination" as he calls it, is a strong sign of authenticity. On the other hand, an abundance of hinge fractures that are loose and barely attached is a sign of recent reproduction. How numerous are your hinge fractures? Dozens and dozens? Do they appear loose?

    Your question about patina lacking mineral deposit...is a good one: let's see what the experienced voices have to say. I'm not sure.

    Keep that 'scope clean!
    Cayuga County, NY Finger Lakes Region

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    • c_venture
      c_venture commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey Cmcramer, there are dozens of hinge fractures but they do not appear loose I will post pictures tonight..
      Last edited by c_venture; 05-23-2019, 09:12 PM.

  • #3
    It has a lot to do with the quality of material, I have a Clovis that was found in two pieces and put back together. The quality of material is so good that there is hardly ant patina and no mineral deposits. it was not a surface find though, but some pieces that are dug also patinate really fast and in a short time they have a heavy patina.

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    • c_venture
      c_venture commented
      Editing a comment
      That is an interesting comment on the quality of the material....

  • #4
    I’m thinking if you can’t see hinge fractures without the scope, they shouldn’t be too big of a red flag.
    My name is Gary. I live in NE South Dakota

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    • #5
      I'm thinking patina and mineralization are two separate things, not necessarily related. Patina: caused by exposure to sunlight, ultraviolet light, temperature changes, water, oxygen etc., while mineralization caused by contact with / exposure to soils containing iron and/or manganese (east of Mississippi).

      Imagine an artifact located in sand...or rocky gravel....or underwater environment .....for a few thousand years: patina - yes, but no mineralization/iron deposition. Not sure, just thinkin'.

      The attached photos aren't the best example, because there is some mineralization, for sure. But isn't the patina cool? You can see where this point spent a few thousand years buried, perhaps, in just the right way as to cause a big difference in patina.
      Cayuga County, NY Finger Lakes Region

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      • c_venture
        c_venture commented
        Editing a comment
        Cmcramer, yes that patina is really cool

    • #6
      Soil conditions will play a large part to. Very few of my finds coming out of very sandy soils have any patination or mineral deposits at least to the naked eye wearing 1.75 reading glasses.
      As to hinge fractures it can also be a matter of what part of the country (freeze thaw vs no freeze thaw) and or what the artifact has been subjected to laying there all those years. You see a lot of points on here that come from the South out of undisturbed soils that have plenty of hinge fractures.
      Searching the fields of Northwest Indiana and Southwestern Michigan

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      • #7
        I’ve found them in the creek with hinge fractures. So it’s a tough answer to give.

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        • #8

          Those look like 'loose' flakes, loose hinge fractures, to me. And on a 10,000 year old piece?
          Does the first pic show several ridges that appear to be flattened, and reflect the light just a bit?

          Let's see what the experienced guys have to say.
          Last edited by Cmcramer; 05-24-2019, 06:49 AM.
          Cayuga County, NY Finger Lakes Region

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          • #9
            Flattened ridges? This is an over simplification....but flattened ridges are an indication of intentional deception, while rounded, worn-over ridges are an indication of authenticity. I think...
            Last edited by Cmcramer; 05-24-2019, 06:53 AM.
            Cayuga County, NY Finger Lakes Region

            Comment


            • c_venture
              c_venture commented
              Editing a comment
              "flattened ridges" That is a good call out, i will look at that closer with the scope... Thanks!

          • #10
            I would send it to a proper authenticator because I have doubts on it, too.
            Professor Shellman

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