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  • Aztec Tecpatl

    Hi all,
    I need your help :-)

    I don't normally buy lithics from the US or South America...partially because I am petrified on modern fakes and mostly because I do not have a clue what they are worth !!!

    British and European flint artefacts I can value the genuine and spot a fake at a hundred yards :-)

    So today I went to an auction in Sussex (England) that all have provenance and all of the Brit and Danish stuff was 100% genuine. All from one 90 year old collector; who himself purchased collections from big estates (Earl or this, Duke of that, Lord xxx and so on)....so happy with the provenance.

    I bought a group which contained this artefact, which my initial online search suggests is an Aztec Tecpatl…..not a nice tool in use...but beautifully made. Does anyone have any suggestions on the material and any further information that can add to the story ?

    If you need macro-lens pictures of any section/edge just ask

    many thanks in advance

  • #2
    Nice blade never seen one with pointed end with that shape

    Comment


    • #3
      I have seen some blades in U,S. with that shape and I thought Aztec used obsidian
      South East Ga. Twin City

      Comment


      • clovisoid
        clovisoid commented
        Editing a comment
        Willjo, great catch on the Aztec using Obsidian. They usually traded to get flint from some other groups in Mexico.

    • #4
      Looks big but fresh I don't know the age you were thinking on it though. But I'm not a expert at material maybe someone else will have better news on it.
      NW Georgia,

      Comment


      • #5
        Nice piece!

        I love and collect relics from Latin America and have handled hundreds of those over the years. There were huge caches of them uncovered as offerings in Mexico City as some of the other kingdoms in Central Mexico paid tribute to the Aztecs, and not having money or not appreciating gold, flint knives, jade, feathers, and relics were common items for tribute.

        Some would have been used for sacrifice or blood letting, but the vast majority of these show absolutely no use. They were just made, sent to the Aztecs and then buried.

        That pearly white material is likely from one of the quarries down in Oaxaca, probably made by the Mixtec. (In fact Mixtec Blade is probably the most widely used common name for them.)

        If you search past auctions for 'Mixtec Blade' on LiveAuctioneers.com you'll see some examples.

        Here is a link to a post I made a while ago with a couple of mine and a link to a lot more data on these.







        I recently accepted a different role in my company, and will be moving the family to Hong Kong in 2017. So this weekend I started the process of cleaning up my
        Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

        Comment


        • clovisoid
          clovisoid commented
          Editing a comment
          I tried to add the link again. The cool part is the info from Lithic Casting Labs site, Pete Bostrom has some great info and pictures.

        • Sunny
          Sunny commented
          Editing a comment
          Clovisoid - many thanks for that information. That helps so much. It also gives me a direction in which to search for the source of the material.
          It also helps to know that I have been holding it upside down :-)

          I have a challenge - from a German chap - on a British facebook lithics group about proving it is not a modern fake.....or at least a fake made in the 1950s (or thereabouts) when it was acquired by the previous collector. Any suggestions on what to look for or errors that the fakers make ?

          The rest of the collection - which is being slowly sold off - is 100% authentic. Loads of classic Danish stuff, some French polished flint axes and some British pieces that I have handled and can fully authenticate.
          It does not make sense that in such a huge collection - thousands of pieces - he should have one fake Aztec piece; unless he too was duped. But was there such a thing going on in the mid-20th centaury (?)….to my mind this is a modern thing, since flint knapping became a major hobby in the USA.

          In the UK we see so far less fakes, as knapping is not that big here and our material is very hard to fake the patina. I have seen faked (museum grade) Lower Palaeolithic handaxes coming from France (or Belgium/Holland area). They contain flaws in style and so I have been able to help serious collectors avoid buying them. But the genuine versions sell for major money, so the fakers are going to try.

          But would you spend a couple of days (or more) making a very high grade flint artefact - as a fake - to sell it for a $100 or $200 ??? it doesn't add up. I can see the temptation if the object is going to sell for $2-3000 for a Type IV Danish Dagger....

        • clovisoid
          clovisoid commented
          Editing a comment
          Sunny,

          If you have decently solid collector history back a couple of decades, it would be almost unimaginable to me for it to be a replica. If all of the other pieces that you are more familiar with are authentic, the it's another point in favor of authentic.

          I know a lot of people had the skill set to make them 50 years ago, but they just weren't that common of a style to be copied. They've grown in popularity over the last 20 years and occasionally you'll see exotic examples of the style made now.

          The flaking and material are spot on for the type. I haven't seen any modern replicas like it. (I'm sure some people have copied them, but most of the good knappers in Mexico use obsidian and focus on the Teotihuacan or Colima style blades.) The ancient knappers used 3 or 4 different quarries for these blades, I haven't seen anyone source the raw material in modern times.

          Joshua

      • #6
        I recently accepted a different role in my company, and will be moving the family to Hong Kong in 2017. So this weekend I started the process of cleaning up my



        I recently accepted a different role in my company, and will be moving the family to Hong Kong in 2017. So this weekend I started the process of cleaning up my
        Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

        Comment


        • #7
          Interesting that the widest part of the blade was the foward tip of the knife - left more room for them to be anthropomorphized I guess.

          In the Aztec culture, a tecpatl was a flint or obsidian knife with a lanceolate figure and double-edged blade, with elongated ends. Both ends could be rounded or pointed, but other designs were made with a blade attached to a handle. It can be represented with the top half red, reminiscent of the color of blood, in representations of human sacrifice and the rest white, indicating the color of the flint blade.
          If the women don\'t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

          Comment


          • #8
            Have you considered that it may be Solutrian (sp incorrect), laurel leaf. Check out Dennis Stanford at the Smithsonian. You are closer to Spain than to Mexico.

            Comment


            • Sunny
              Sunny commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi CoastCracker - it is not Solutrean, which was a technocomplex that produced mid-sized projectile points; similar to Clovis stuff. This is far too big and well made.
              It is also made of a white chert that we do not get (geologically) in Europe. I have been collecting European stuff for over 40 years and can safely discount that - but I appreciate the suggestion.

              There are also some other Mexican pieces and US artefacts in the collection ….I will post some pictures
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