Ever wondered why knives are short?

[tomf]

Are they just limited by the size of available material?


It seems like it would take a lot of work to kill with one, so I'm not sure they can be seen as weapons. Yet serrations and barbs imply malicious intent....

So maybe clubs, spears and (later add) the bow and arrow for battle.


Based on that idea, I'll call this a spear point rather than a knife.

What do you reckon?

[Pointhead]

There’s a difference between knives, spears and darts! Some knives were relatively large. : I’ve seen blades anywhere from 5-8 inches long. And would say that most of the knives we find have been worked down from a blade that was once larger.

I would say a knife is for your handiwork.
a spear was for defense or killing for sure. Darts would’ve been the primary hunting technique for most, when trapping spears would’ve been effective too. The point you posted could definitely have been a dart too... spears were usually a bit larger.

but yeah knives were definitely not a weapon of war or hunting. More so for daily tasks/meat butchering

[tomf]

I think I agree with all of that.

I think it speaks to a generally peaceful existence that the one essential tool that was kept at hand, was one of utility and not of defence.

[Charles Jones]

I found these two knives in the same spot a year apart. I believe they were unused and part of a cache.

[tomf]

Very nice knives. Do you feel they were unused based on how they were found or on forensic examination?

Also notice the angled base which is a little different.

[Charles Jones]

I found these in exactly the same spot at the edge of a field that was the edge of an ancient lakeshore. I suspect there may be more pieces in the area just outside the plowed field edge. I have never found any other worked pieces within a quarter mile of the spot, so I suspect a cache. To me, there doesn’t seem to be evidence of re sharpening.

[sailorjoe]

Hi Tomf. The point you show was used as a knife. One can easily discern that by the strong indication of wear along the two edges. Some knifes were small and some large just like today. Unlike most knives today which have a cutting edge on one side, most of the knives the NA folks made were made with both sides as cutting edges. However, a few knife "points" had only one cutting edge. An example of that is the ulu style blade commonly used by the Eskimos culture. It does not take a big blade to be efficient. Just think about the small blade on a carpenter's knife (aka boxcutter) and a doctor's scalpel. In our times we call a knife with two cutting edges a dagger and that is commonly used as a weapon instead of a utility tool.

[tomf]

I had it classified as a knife due to it's asymmetric shape. I figure projectiles are more likely to be symmetric. I think the big serrations on the one edge suggest design for maximum wounding, rather than some more mundane task. I think it's a weapon. Whether it was hafted to a handle or a pole is hard to say.
Not being argumentative, but saying; "Some knives were small and some large just like today", might ignore the statistics. As fas as I can tell, the vast majority that we find are below 6".  My theory is that's down to the size of available material. I do agree that small blades can do almost any job in the right hands, though.

[sailorjoe]

Yes, projectile points are symmetrical. And knives were also. Also, the size of a point is sometimes but not necessarily the major diifference between a point used as a knife and one used as a dart point. Some knifes were asymmetric just as some today. There are many classified types that are sometime asymmetric. HST, in the pics that you show ( and they seem to be good ones) are clearly signs of use as a knife. There are several types that have purposefully made serrated edges. A couple of examples are one or the Kirk styles and those among the LeCroy/MacCorkle complex and some of the Pine Tree points.. And there are more that I could name..The folks in the Early Archaic period seemed to like using some of their blades with serrated edges. We rarely see them in later periods as per late Late Archaic and Woodland. Whether you agree or not is OK, I am giving my opinion based on several thousand points that I found and my associations with other folks whose knowledge was much greater than mine. Please realize that knives were mostly used for the mundane tasks of survival like skinning animals, peeling bark from willow roots to make baskets, etc. and not as tools for killing animals whether wild or human. Also, HST all that, I as usual I may be wrong. It is always helpful to have an artifact in hand..

[tomf]

That's a lot of great info and I wouldn't disagree with any of it. My questions and pet theories come through examining my own growing collection and whatever I can read. The wisdom and experience of forum members (like you) help to keep me on track and challenge my assumptions. So I'm grateful when somebody takes the time to share their knowledge.

I find quite a few serrated points and get the feeling the tradition extends through all periods in this area. Some are fine-tooth and some heavy (like the example above). The fine-tooth seem (to me) to be more practical for daily cutting chores, where heavy serrations seem more geared toward damage. It's just a theory I was throwing out there.

Also I have a theory that most butchery and menial work was done with expedient knives and scrapers, based on the greater ratio of these types to finished bifaces and their superior performance. Utilized flakes are too effective and too prevalent not to have been central to many processes.

I do think a good knife was part of the standard kit, but each specific task had a specific tool, even if most were made on the fly and discarded after use.

[Tam]

Sailorjoe is said it so well . But in a gals kitchen terms
think of my favorite , a small paring knife . Sharp and easy to get around the bone and handles well .

[Von]

I agree a small bladed knife is much better for skinning and quartering a deer. The blade is safer to use and a bonus is it’s less likely to break.

Von

[tomf]

I agree a small bladed knife is much better for skinning and quartering a deer. The blade is safer to use and a bonus is it’s less likely to break.

Von

I think that's true and might even go further to say that knives (big or small) were not the preferable tool for butchery or many other chores. I mentioned to Sailor Joe my theory that (what we call) expedient flake blades and scrapers are better suited and more common.
Maybe knives were the multipurpose tool that bridged the gap between others and, perhaps, there was a certain status and symbolism attached to them. In CA, life was loosely organized around villages and people carried very little. Maybe knives were one thing that were held as personal possessions and reflected the ability (status) of it's owner. Ceremonial wealth blades may mark the apex of this concept. Again, just a theory.

[kayakaddict]

With a lot of material its is really hard to get flakes larger than a few inches intact, and hard to keep them long without breaking during knapping, so shorter knives is just tha nature of reliable, practical tools in my humble opinion.