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  • Large arrow head / spear point help

    Greetings All,

    I have a large-ish arrow head or spear point that I'm confused about. I've tried several times to identify it with multiple online resources. I can't say where it was found because I purchased it years ago. The couple I bought it from made some interesting claims. Anyway, I doubt it's "authentic" given the size. I've given thought to possibly having it authenticated but thought I would seek help here first. Thank you!!


    edit: dimensions are ~8.5" x 3.25" at thickest part

  • #2
    Welcome cortex, I don’t usually advise someone about what they purchased, but in this case I’ll make an exception, ..It’s not authentic, without going into all the reasons why I will just comment on the edgework..while serrations sometimes appear on blade edges they’re never found on the basel edge, ,
    Floridaboy.

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    • #3
      If Hal says not authentic, don’t bother with any further effort. With that said, will offer what forum has taught me: something that big not used as arrow point. Welcome to greatest resource around!
      Digging in GA, ‘bout a mile from the Savannah River

      Comment


      • Hal Gorges
        Hal Gorges commented
        Editing a comment
        No further effort,?...What’s that ?...Just give up ?...No challenge?,..
        Last edited by Hal Gorges; 03-31-2021, 01:28 AM.

    • #4
      Modern Point. I think it's keokuk.
      Michigan Yooper
      If You Don’t Stand for Something, You’ll Fall for Anything

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by Hal Gorges View Post
        Welcome cortex, I don’t usually advise someone about what they purchased, but in this case I’ll make an exception, ..It’s not authentic, without going into all the reasons why I will just comment on the edgework..while serrations sometimes appear on blade edges they’re never found on the basel edge, ,
        I appreciate you looking at my pictures. I definitely had my doubts. I would honestly love to know the reasons why it is not authentic (if you have time and the desire). It would just be for my curiosity. This is the only artifact I’ve ever purchased actually. Like I said, the couple I purchased it from had quite a story and it was worth the gamble. If there’s desire, I can share it. It’s not long, just weird. I have some (arrowheads, a banner stone, stone axe heads) that I found on my grandparents farm but sadly I no longer have access. They’ve long since passed. I’d love to hunt more but have no place to do so .

        Why would someone make this? Just for profit? It seems like a lot of work to make for something I really didn’t pay THAT much for.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Ron Kelley View Post
          Modern Point. I think it's keokuk.
          Thank you! As I asked Hal, why would someone make this?

          Comment


          • tomclark
            tomclark commented
            Editing a comment
            The reason why is not as important as why it was not permanently marked in some fashion to prevent what's going on now....

        • #7
          Tom Clark: I’m not sure I understand. Was I not supposed to post this? I’m not trying to cause trouble. It’s been bugging me for years!

          Comment


          • Hoss
            Hoss commented
            Editing a comment
            You did nothing wrong the couple who sold it with a story are the wrong doers.

          • SDhunter
            SDhunter commented
            Editing a comment
            Tom just meant that the person that made it should have “signed” it. So to speak.

        • #8
          Flint knapping is a hobby and an artform. It is also a great way to replicate ancient forms using ancient techniques. Archeologists and anthropologists have done replication in order to study forms. As long as there has been people and flint it has been continuously done. The person who made that probably had no intention to misrepresent it. However the hobby itself can be costly so flint knappers sometimes sell their work. That is where the water gets muddy. If the maker took a minute to scribe his work with a dimond scrib tthere wiould be no doubts. The trouble is some knappers are so good at the craft is the replications are perfect they sell and the buyer then creates a way to make it look old and adds a story. Yours is not made right. the serrations all the way around are a dead give away. The point is very clean based on these photos and lacks any patina . In hand I could probably tell you a lot more about it but I agree with Hal . I might have underwear older than that point. LOL You said you did not pay much. It makes for a great study piece so you know what not to buy. I would get a 10X lighted magnifier and just start looking at that. Look at it and they pick up a few personal finds and look at them. You will see huge differences.
          TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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          • #9
            Originally posted by Hoss View Post
            Flint knapping is a hobby and an artform. It is also a great way to replicate ancient forms using ancient techniques. Archeologists and anthropologists have done replication in order to study forms. As long as there has been people and flint it has been continuously done. The person who made that probably had no intention to misrepresent it. However the hobby itself can be costly so flint knappers sometimes sell their work. That is where the water gets muddy. If the maker took a minute to scribe his work with a dimond scrib tthere wiould be no doubts. The trouble is some knappers are so good at the craft is the replications are perfect they sell and the buyer then creates a way to make it look old and adds a story. Yours is not made right. the serrations all the way around are a dead give away. The point is very clean based on these photos and lacks any patina . In hand I could probably tell you a lot more about it but I agree with Hal . I might have underwear older than that point. LOL You said you did not pay much. It makes for a great study piece so you know what not to buy. I would get a 10X lighted magnifier and just start looking at that. Look at it and they pick up a few personal finds and look at them. You will see huge differences.

            Thank you for the reply! I talked the person down quite a bit which did make me feel it was a fake. However, it was huge and neat and was worth the risk. I believe the intention was actually to misrepresent. I'll just tell the short story. There's an old couple (5-10 years ago, the man was in his 90s and the woman was in her 80s) that would come to gun shows and always bring antiques. They *claimed* to have bought a museum back in the 40s-50s. I wish I had gotten their number or a way of contacting them. They would always come to the "Indy 1500." It's a large gun show in Indianapolis, IN. They had a lot of neat stuff. They had some spear points and I liked the look of this one and purchased it. Some of the things they had were very expensive... however I wouldn't purchase those even with a COA (could be faked). I say I didn't pay *too* much .

            I completely agree--it should be marked. I have arrowheads and such but am by no means (obviously) even a novice at spotting a fake. I'm sure that's why they bring such items to shows. Like I said above, I'd love to hunt but don't have any idea where to. All I have is the stuff found on my grandparents farm.

            Comment


            • Hoss
              Hoss commented
              Editing a comment
              Gun shows back in the day had some unscrupulous sellers. Some good people too. Was the guy into selling Japanese swords?

          • #10
            Welcome from Michigan. If you have artifacts that you have found we’d love to see them.
            Uncle Trav- Southwest Michigan

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            • #11
              Hate to interrupt on this but should flint knapping be made illegal or regulated somehow outside of archaeological purposes to avoid this?

              Comment


              • Hal Gorges
                Hal Gorges commented
                Editing a comment
                There’s too many people in this country trying to ban things..practically every thing that’s made has been counterfeited, even money, should we ban money.,Lol...sorry, I got carried away.

              • Hoss
                Hoss commented
                Editing a comment
                It is not th3e knappers doing this. It is one group of unscrupulous people who buy from knappers and add a fake patina and sell in order to deceive. There is another smaller group of people who dont know an old artifact from a new one. They will just sell it as old and a buyer comes along that thuinks they know old but really dont and they buy it. There is no way to stop this. Knappers could diamond scribe their work. However there is so much trash already in circulation the best thing for any one of us it to educate ourselves. If something is too good to be true. Well it usually is. Buy the rock and know what your buying. Don't buy the story.

            • #12
              Hoss: They did not have Japanese swords that I remember. That would have made it more suspicious. All of the "artifacts" were either Native American or Colonial.

              edit: I would recognize them if I saw their picture. She claimed to be Native American herself but I have no idea if she was. The were well known (and respected) at the gun show.
              Last edited by kortex; 03-31-2021, 08:16 AM.

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              • #13
                Originally posted by Uncle Trav View Post
                Welcome from Michigan. If you have artifacts that you have found we’d love to see them.
                OK. I took some pictures. Apologies for the "harsh" lighting. Most of these artifacts aren't necessarily nice compared to the things I've seen on here, so please be nice. Also, some of them may be (probably are) just rocks. Obviously, I'm not experienced. I do know though that the one piece is a crinoid fossil, so no need to tell me it isn't an arrowhead . My brothers have more than I do, but these were all found in Benton County, Indiana.


                Attached Files

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                • Uncle Trav
                  Uncle Trav commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Great artifacts!! Love the bannerstone especially. Great to have a collection with a family tie in. Thanks for sharing.

                • Hoss
                  Hoss commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nice collection

              • #14
                +last pics
                Attached Files

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                • #15
                  Nice pieces in there... really liking the axe and banner stone.
                  great finds.....👍
                  Southeastern Minnesota’s driftless area

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