Selling a collection....have a cross???

[JimCDye]

I am selling a collection I inherited. What I know, they were picked up along the river when the town of Cottongin Port was abandoned in the 1930's. It is now known as Amory, MS. I have been told the birds, buffalo, fish, donkey, and a few others are ceremonial pieces thought to be of Cherokee origin. But, I have never seen a cross. Has anyone else?
Thanks,
Jim C. Dye

[rmartin]

Welcome to the forum Jim. I viewed your collection and well.....the vast majority of them are figments of a modern flintknapper's imagination. The cross, birds, buffalo, fish, and donkey as well as many of the points are not authentic.

[JimCDye]

I'm not sure why you think this as I knew he man that personally found them for over 50 years. Maybe you should refrain from saying they are not authentic until they are looked at. They are very rare and I only stumbled on your site to find someone qualified enough to tell me what they are worth. Nothing fake about them but I appreciate your concern. They are in fact so rare that one artifact hunter didn't know what to price them at.
Jim Dye

[rmartin]

I am sorry I offended you but I have collected artifacts for lots of years. I have found thousands and viewed or handled many thousands more. When you posted these here, you are asking for opinions and I gave you mine.

[JimCDye]

Hi,
You didn't offend me. This seems to be the first reaction until they are viewed in person. Then I get offers to buy the entire collection. Each one has a story, each one collected along the MS river through the late 30's-early 40's. The old man that left them to me could tell you where each one was picked up. He never could figure out the cross. If only he were here to share these stories and I had paid better attention when he did.
Thanks,
Jim

[chase]

Sry Jim, I would have to agree with rmartin that they are modern made. there are a few that look like the could be authentic but it would bring up the source as to weather they were real or fake as the other points. I am sorry that your friend played such a practical joke on you. But I will say the conses of anyone posting to this thread will be the same, they are modern made. That's my opinion.
Chase

[cgode]

Welcome to the forum JimCDye. I'm sorry to say, I have to agree with rmartin and Chase on this. They have tons of experience which is an understatement. These types of items pop up on the forums several times a year and always with the same story similiar to yours. I don't doubt for a second that you believe they are authentic as that is the story you were told, but, they are modern made IMO as well.
stick around the forum, don't take the opinions offered here personally, it's not a personal attack by any means. It is opinions of some very experienced folks that do know what they're talking about.

[JimCDye]

Hi,
I respect your opinions. It was not a practical joke. I am 70 and they belonged to
My late father in law. I inherited them. I remember them being laid on a table in the 50's with him tying to arrange how he wanted them. At that point, he had had some of them for 20 years. He found them, he said, when they relocated my hometown of Amory,MS from cottongin port. The man wasn't known to be a liar. This is my first time on the forum searching for something similar. It was appraised 15 years ago twice for over $10,000. I appreciate your help and you may be right...but I can not take the chance without having someone look and
maybe even date it.
Thanks,
Jim

[rmartin]

Jim, I understand your position. Believe me when I say I don't come on this forum waiting to tell some one they have Geofacts or Reproductions. I don't like doing this but I have to give an honest opinion based on my experience. But as I have said, I have seen thousands of artifacts over my 30 years of collecting and I feel most of yours are modern. Many old time collections contain pieces like this. It seems they just got mixed in with the rest. I don't blame you for not accepting my opinion because you don't know me from the Man in the Moon. My best advice would be to show them to a knowledgable local collector or museum for their opinion.

[chase]

Jim, I can appreciate the fact that he was your Father in law, and was a honest person,But here is what I see. 1. The number of how many there are in this frame. If your father in law was able to find this many then you would see them in other collections as well as museums and would be accepted by the archaeology community.
2. If this is the entire collection, then I would say that he was not a collector of this hobby. There would be more points, knives, scrapers, and a whole lot of broken pieces.
Here is my take on this collection, your Father in law found a few arrowheads while fishing or walking around. He most likely had them in a shoe box or coffee can. Some flint knapper came into town peddle-ling his work, your father in law likes what he saw and bought them. Decided to display them with the points he found and there was a miss interpretation as to what was found and what was bought. Back in the early part of last century people were selling them as original native american artifacts and not modern made pieces, and would go from town to town selling them.
That is truly my honest opinion.
Chase

[JimCDye]

responding to your comment....my father-in-law, Jack Duvall collected Indian arrowheads during the 30's and 40's.  My first viewing of his collection was in 1958.  He had six [6] 5 gallon buckets of every thing from flint tools, spear heads, arrowheads, ax heads, and bird points. all were donated to the Amory Regional Museum.Many are on display there and the rest are archived at that location. he never purchased any artifacts.  This collection is what he personally gleaned from his collection because he felt they were unique. His comment to me was " these are mostly ceremonial pieces"  He personally mounted these on black board in the 70's and I had them put in a custom made solid oak display frame three years ago. The museum collection is both extensive and beautiful to be enjoyed by visitors for generations to come. He was indeed a collector.

[twiasp]

Why not take it to the museum that has records of your father in laws other donated pieces and just have them verify these pieces and see if they are artifacts or reproductions. Wouldn't they be more than happy to help since he gave so much to them?

[Bone2stone]

twiasp wrote:

Why not take it to the museum that has records of your father in laws other donated pieces and just have them verify these pieces and see if they are artifacts or reproductions. Wouldn't they be more than happy to help since he gave so much to them?

  This is your best alternative.
If you wish to sell them anyone, who is a true collector,
they would not laugh at you but you would not get an offer to purchase either.
If some sucker offered you 10 grand you should have taken them up on that.
If you were to keep an eye open for an up-comming artifact show you could get a hands on evaluation.
That way you could seperate the fake/re-productions from the authentic, it appears as if you do have some true artifacts there but it devalues the others just by association.
At a show they may mention ecentrics but I do not see them in your collection.
Ecentrics had a different purpose.
BTW: I don't see mention of a "THUNDERBIRD" that is usually what we see as "look what I got"!!!!!!
Bone2stone
These people here are only trying to help, they could have been rather brutal
but they were honest and sincere.

[utilized flake]

I'll be brutal!!!!! j/k  no really I think people need to do some research before getting so defensive I mean each piece has its own story? really> sounds like you are awful close  to those artifakes to be wanting to sell em'   shoulda woulda coulda 15 grand.......the more realistic ones in your case might get some interest to a collector but as many have said...by being associated with questionable pieces it will make a true collector run...good for a story or sucker though!!!

[Bone2stone]

It appears as if our new friend has quit responding.
He may have taken his "Rare and Unusual" collection to that
"Shaman" web site....Now that is where he should go, they sell "Rocks"
as rare and let's not forget beautiful.
That was not only bunk it was off-the-wall, I would say stupid but that would be degrading.
I'll just go so far to say that was ignorance in the raw...
I too get defensive about some things but, at least I have background in what
am talking about.
We can try and try but there will be others who mysteriously have the most unusual collection that Joe-in-the-know told him they were worth a small fortune.
We all know that some will truly have a collection worth giving a thumbs up others will have field grade stuff worth looking at but relativly worthless or worth little. Fortunately there is some out ther with some really nice stuff and that is what we wait for, when they come along that is what we really want to see!!!!!!!! An amature wanting to know what his acumulation of Folsoms are worth.
Then there will be some that have that one collection like the ones here on this thread that
convincing them is a waste of time and not worth the effort.
I will point them to some local direction where they can get some reliable information.
The shows are the best place for them to go without a doubt. A museum is not always the way to go.
Maybe a university with an archeological study program would be their best bet.
They could argue with them till they are blue in the face.
This has been interesting and I can tell there are some here that their concerne is sincere.
Now where is that guy that has a collection of "Thunderbirds" that his granpa gave him.....
Yall have a good night.
Bone2stone