Unknown Native American Clay Pipe

[Peaceful Pirate]

Greetings! My first time to visit and I need some assistance. We are collectors, buyers and sellers of various Native American arts and artifacts ranging from utilitarian ware to bird stones. Recently as part of an Indiana estate auction of what was obviously an long time collector, several items were offered, one being an obviously old and well used clay effigy pipe.
Having never seen a pipe like this, we turned to the net; however, that has provided us with nothing helpful, and that is when new found your site. So we thought we would tap into the wealth here to see if anyone might have some idea of the origin and time frame of this great old pipe.
As mentioned, it is an elongated pipe decorated with the image of what appears to be unmistakably a catfish. It measures just under 6 inches long, about 1 1/4 inches wide and 1 3/4 inches tall. It is a red tinted clay with shell mix. Any thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.
Retired former government and administrative higher education “old man” who now piddles with collecting, buying and selling firearms and Native American items. Not much into field work anymore (that heart thing) so I spend a great deal of time going to and watching online auctions for interesting estate auctions.

[pkfrey]

Since you asked, I will offer an opinion, but you might not agree. The reason you haven't seen one like this before, is because it isn't ancient. It appears to be pottery, and appears to be a very crude copy of a Hopewell platform pipe with an animal effigy. Quite a few things wrong with the pipe. These are normally crafted from stone, not pottery, such as Ohio pipestone being the most common lithic. I don't recall ever seeing a fish on an authentic Hopewell pipe. The hole at the mouthpiece is entirely to small, and the overall crudeness is typologically way out of style for an authentic pipe. Let see what other folks have to offer on this.

[painshill]

... and does not the effigy figure almost invariably face towards the smoker on authentic Hopewell items?

[pkfrey]

On every authentic example I've handled, the front of the effigy does face the smoker.

[rmartin]

I agree with PK. Nothing about this looks right. In addition to what he said. I don't see the obvious patina I would expect from something that would have been in the ground for a long time.

[Peaceful Pirate]

Many thanks! Please understand that we do appreciate your comments and know that we do not object at all. A fake is a fake.
That being the case would that be any objection if we posted a few other pictures of objects we have collected over time to see if we also have other weaknesses? It is difficult when you live “out in the north forty” and buy at estate sales, auctions and over the net to know what you will get. While we are confident of the provenance of most items, several must truly be said to be in question.
Let’s call it an academic exercise for you and a resolution of questions for us. Again, we do thank each of you.

[rmartin]

Pirate, feel free to post up. Hopefully we can give some good news too.

[Peaceful Pirate]

GREAT!! We really do appreciate it. Ok, here goes:
Birdstone reportedly from southern Illinois. Obtained from a known individual in 1995:



  Birdstone obtained from estate auction of personal Native American artifacts collection. Came with handwritten tag stating:
Porphyry Birdstone
Sackman Field, ILL
May 16, 1963




  A group of six items purchased recently from an auction. Auction title “(6) Native American Stone Implements - Delaware River of PA”


  Finally, we just thought we would share pics of some of the other items we have to dust on occasion:







And once again, we say "Thank You" - PP

[CMD]

Not sure about the birdstones, others here will have more experienced opinions. The next group of photos show 5 notched weights, or net weights, as they are also called because that's how they were likely used. Those are real, as is the 3/4 groove axe and the celt in the photo above it. All the points look like field grade, genuine points and tools, in the first photo of points. in he 2nd point photo, not sure about the one with the red thing around it, and maybe one other with a similar base. Others can better judge the pottery, but the first looks good to me. My 2 cents, 100% accuracy not guaranteed   Welcome to the forum!

[G10+]

I think Charlie hit this dead on

[pkfrey]

When authenticaeting artifacts, the typology ( artifact material, shape, and style ) is very important. Authentic artifacts will exhibit certain manufacturing characteristics which are common to other known, similar artifacts. The two birdstones are great examples to evaluate using typological differences. The first appears to be soapstone, which is rarely used on authentic examples. The " nose " is way to elongated, the eyes are two small relative to the size of the head, the extended part of the base at the tail shouldn't be there, there doesn't appear to be any areas of patination caused by ground contact, and just the overall shape is wrong. Notice the differences between this and the porphry bird. On the porphry bird, there is at least correct typology. The nose is shortened and slightly raised, the tail is shorter and stubbier, and there is visible oxidation and frost cracking on the quartz inclusions. The eyes are slightly larger, on shorter, well defined " stalks ". Overall, from the photos, it's very possible the porphry birdstone is authentic, but would need to be examined using magnification to be sure. Everything else looks authentic. The pottery is Mississippian/Caddo related, and looks authentic. I'm not extremely well educated on specific pottery types, but these appear to be from the Arkansas/Missouri area.

[rmartin]

Pirate, I think these guys are spot on.

[Bone2stone]

Roger, you're right!!!
Now the points,
First set,
Row one:
The second and last points.
Row two,
The first one.
Are these three "Double notched"?
Jess B.

[Peaceful Pirate]

Thank all of you for your thoughts and comments!!
Pkfrey – Just some follow-up comments and by no means do I question you; however, I should add that it does not appear to be a soapstone, but from the weight, 5.3 oz., and texture, hard, which both of which obviously do not show up in a photo, leads to a granite material. As to ground marking, you will note the shine – and I hate to go here, but the individual I obtained it from who lived in Evansville at the time, claimed he had found it while farming in Olney, Il.
Now as to the part I always hated – According to him, after he found it he took it home and “buffed it out” as he put it. Up close, it does have an overall patina indicative of being in the ground. I guess I should have mentioned that, but buffing, shining and repainting any antiquities tends to create a cold feeling in me!!!
As for this fellows funny nose, during my research on him I ran across this site – Take a look at example “A” about midway done the page in the group of six.

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2009junebirdstonespage1.htm

Also on the same page, they mention examples having “feet”. I am not sure if the extended elongations would be considered “feet”, but they might be?
Net weights! I would have never gone there, but that explains why they all look like they all have been in a creak or river and look like they had moss all over them.
Again, I am thankful for all your thoughts!!!

[Hoss]

Could be those angled shot with the first bird but I think that looks like steatite too. We have some information on birdstones in our Information Center here:

http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/information-center-gc33/lithic-artifacts-technology-materials-gc71/atlatl-weights-banner-bird-boat-stones-gc77/107985-birdstones-types-eye-forms

http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/information-center-gc33/lithic-artifacts-technology-materials-gc71/atlatl-weights-banner-bird-boat-stones-gc77/107992-birdstones-use-function

one specific to lithic material

http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/information-center-gc33/lithic-artifacts-technology-materials-gc71/lithic-material-types-sourcing-gc72/general-information-multi-regional-lithics/107990-birdstone-lithic-materials

Welcome to the forum thanks for the post. Get that spider out of the hole on the Porphyry one.