Help with this lithic materal.

[hvs]

I thought i would post this material here to see if someone can help identify it.. Just recently i seen a post here regarding some lithic material called Munsungen chert from northern Maine.. This material here was found in the Hudson valley region of NY. The munsungen chert really resembles what i have found and was hoping for someone to clarify this.. Thank you Ron
Just about every flake in this can has been worked as though the natives used them as a quick tool then discarded it..

[chase]

I only spent a short time in the Hudson Valley, and do not know the region.The last pic does resemble the jasper's from the area. But the other pic's :dunno:  :dunno:  cant help!
Lithic's have always fascinated me! Wish I knew more! :crazy:

[pkfrey]

Ron, I don't believe your can of material is Munsungen. It appears to be jasper. There are jasper outcrops in every state of the northeast. It's heavily concentrated in eastern Pa. and a geological formation called The reading Prong will contain jasper in a large variety of colors and texture. Each outcrop. however, will have a signature color, slightly different from one source to another. The piece with the black in it is also jasper, and has a black inclusion of chert. This mixture is common in the Berks/Lehigh Co. quarries, and when found totally black is locally known as black jasper.  Out of all that debitage, have you found finished artifacts made from that material?

[hvs]

Thanks pk i really appreciate your opinion very much.. The piece with the black chert mixed in isnt black it green like coxsackie chert.. below is a piece i found on the net they say its munsungen found in Canada a double sided drill.. iTs very similar to the piece i found with the green chert mixed in... Yes i do find whole points of this material and we find them along the Hudson river and its tribs..This material seems to be more like a shale with layers..
this is what i found on the net they say its munsungen..

[pkfrey]

OK, then I would venture an educated guess that the one piece with green is Normanskill/Deepkill. Normanskill/Deepkill is usually an apple green to a light green, but also occurs in black, and will commonly be found with both colors present in the same piece. There are extensive outcrops of this material throughout the Hudson Valley, and continues up to Vermont, with a main source of both Normanskill and Deepkill at Flint Mine Hill, Coxsackie, N.Y.

[hvs]

The only thing is i have friends who have been at the coxsacki mine many times and they also are collectors and have never seen this material in or around the mine..you would think out of all the debitage at the mine site they would find some of the color variation.. I really appreciate your help..Ron
Below is the only whole arrowhead i ever found of coxsackie flint..I find alot of flakes over the years but this is the only point..

[pkfrey]

I don't know of any other green chert/flint for the northeast, green is a very restricted color. Normanskill, Deepkill, and Coxsackie are the only cherts that I've seen in that high quality, glossy green. Does the color on the whole point match the color on the other piece? It could be that where you or your friends are looking, the color combination simply doesn't occur there. Here's a photo of a Perkiomen made from a purple/maroon/greenish chalcedony. This material is tabular and will occur at the Vera Cruz quarry. But it will only be found in a small area right behind the school. You can hunt the quarry all day and miss the one small area where it can be found.

[Hoss]

It was either my cousin or his best friend that once showed me a Normanskill flint point It was a heavily reworked Snook kill point. The  Base was green and the tip was red. It was not a glossy as your sample HVS but I have seen green Normanskill that was that glossy.

[Hoss]

check out this report the bottom of page 51 https://www.hudsonrivervalley.org/re...t1_chilton.pdf
It mentions the many colors in which Normanskill is found. It is not just green

[pkfrey]

Hoss, you are absolutely correct, which I mentioned in a recent post. I think the brown and green piece Ron is showing is Normanskill, just an odd color variety.

[hvs]

Well il have to agree with u guys its defiantly a variation of normanskill for sure.. like you say pk it probably comes from some small concentrate area... thanks for all your help guys..thanks for the link chase..