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Ramah Chert

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  • #16
    Originally posted by LittleRedEagle View Post
    ...wanted to share this. My grandfather showed me a spot in sandbars offshore where stones from Dauphin County Pennsylvania dam were dumped. I have collected it ever since. Local Smithsonian Archaeologists confirmed that it is here, that report just came out this week. Will share more photos soon as we dive for it every week...
    You'll need to clarify what you're saying here. I know Ramah chert was widely distributed. At least as far south as NJ, so no surprise if it has turned up in Pa. But, that a quantity of Ramah chert from Pa was dumped in Delaware Bay just needs some kind of clarification. The stuff originates in Labrador after all. Could you provide some reference to a report by archaeologists at the Smithsonian? This is a rather extraordinary claim, on the surface at least. Would appreciate some kind of clarification.

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    • #17
      I can direct you to a download of Darryn Lowery's last article which was just released this month. I have been collecting it for almost 40 years. This regions Archaeology is very different and complicated, for example the Smithsonian hasn't gotten any archaeological information from Delaware in over 20 years. So now that the Smithsonian is involved and doing actual research on New Stone types, so we have found Ramah chert as one of the usable resources locally imported here. The artifacts that we study in regards to Dauphin County very different than modern artifacts and I work directly with the Delaware tribe with Jon Thomas who was at Wounded Knee to sign in 1973 and is on the Tribal rights commissions goes to United Nations and he is my Delaware brother and the Senior Curator of the State of PA Museum. My local Nanticoke Uncle, Chief William Daisey oversees my progress here. Also, these are the lesser of the two new stone types we collect and Steward. The State of PA will be recording a new stone type the beginning of next year for this.
      The storms this season have uncovered new sandbars out in the bay where more material has been exposed after the Pete was removed. All artifacts are sacred to me but the Delaware give me permission to decide which one is a core that has been damaged you know or is usable for the purposes that were using them for now and a majority the rest of the collection probably 99% or 99.5% it will never be touched. Noone involved is more stringent than myself I assure you, some of my Native friends care more about $ than history. Here is a pic from today of some hammerstone's and things that we found today while swimming.

      I would be happy to even hop on the phone with someone trusted here also. That could help open it up to a broader conversation of needed.
      The work I need is for Gifts for the Councils of the Delaware, Shawnee, Ojibwe, Nanticoke, and Lenape (DE AND NJ). That way you know my intention, and maybe some for the local archaeologists...

      Best Regards, and thank you for helping.
      C

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      • Hoss
        Hoss commented
        Editing a comment
        Those do not appear to be Chert it looks to me like a lot of Quartzite pebbles and some river rocks.
        Last edited by Hoss; 11-29-2017, 10:45 PM.

      • CMD
        CMD commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for your reply. I was just trying to figure out if this quantity of Ramah Chert was imported to the region in ancient times, or if it was quarried in Labrador by archaeologists and then at some point dumped in Delaware Bay.

      • LittleRedEagle
        LittleRedEagle commented
        Editing a comment
        Hoss, I assure you that Ramah church is very unique and that it looks different on the outside then when it's flaked. Ramah chert is a quartzite if you look up all the specs on it you'll see and we have other pictures of close-ups with lights behind and pieces that were work so that you can see the true nature of it there is no doubt that it is Ramah chert.

    • #18
      Charlie I did not open and read this document but found this on the internet you have to log onto Academia to read it.

      http://www.academia.edu/35210512/RAM...y_D_Lowery.pdf
      TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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      • CMD
        CMD commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah, I'm registered with Academia. I'll check it out sometime. Thanks...

      • Ron Kelley
        Ron Kelley commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the link Matt, Interesting history.

      • LittleRedEagle
        LittleRedEagle commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes! That's where I follow Dr. Lowery

    • #19
      Spells his name Darrin L. Lowery https://www.academia.edu/35210512/RA...y_D_Lowery.pdf

      Click image for larger version

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      Last edited by Hoss; 11-29-2017, 10:45 PM.
      TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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      • CMD
        CMD commented
        Editing a comment
        Again, thanks for the article, Hoss....

      • Havenhunter
        Havenhunter commented
        Editing a comment
        Ah, the Solutrean guy.

    • #20
      Awesome blade! I love that material. Thanks for sharing.😀

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      • #21
        Originally posted by Hoss View Post
        The Jack's Reef people liked to trade, didn't they? Curious that here in southern New England, they imported jasper from Pa., and in Pa. they imported Ramah Chert from Labrador.

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        • LittleRedEagle
          LittleRedEagle commented
          Editing a comment
          Look up doctor Stanford's perspective on how that specific chert ended up here he is with the Smithsonian also he leads the department of anthropology
          Last edited by LittleRedEagle; 12-01-2017, 11:55 AM.

      • #22
        Trust me Little Red Eagle I know what Ramah chert is and I also know what the raw material looks like. I owned several woodland points made of it. I have handled it from other collections as well. There has been a lot written about that matrial prior to what was just released by Mr Lowery. Just an FYI I have collected over fifty years. I have seen my share of quartz and quartzite river cobbles . You should get yourself a nice anvil stone and break some of what you are claiming to be Ramah. I think you will quickly learn the difference between quartz/quartzite and Ramah chert. Breaking rock is hard on the hands, wrist and elbow joints but once you get the knack for it you will find it to be a simple task of banging the rocks together. Good luck to you.
        TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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        • #23
          I work stone every day, the Smithsonian has verified what I am sharing. We are working now to complete the first paper. This IS Ramah.

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          • #24
            And anyone is welcome to come see.

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            • #25
              Originally posted by CMD View Post
              Ramah Chert is a translucent quartzite found only in far northern Labrador. It was a favorite tool stone of the Maritime Archaic tradition, present in maritime Canada and the northern coast of Maine:
              http://www.therooms.ca/museum/mnotes12.asp
              It was quarried earlier as well. Here is a fluted point from Vermont made of Ramah Chert, probably sourced when Lake Champlain was the Champlain Sea and connected to the Atlantic:
              http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/cast...ramahchert.htm
              As this distribution map indicates, it has been found in collections as far south as Delaware/Maryland. Quite the distance to travel via trade:
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/pc-atl/4560603563/
              Ramah Chert points:

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n217689[/ATTACH]

              Photo Credit:
              http://nlarchaeology.wordpress.com/2...or/earlt-late/
              Charlie, so how do you tell the difference between this material and the garden variety quartzite we find here along the lower Chesapeake Bay?
              Child of the tides

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              • #26
                Originally posted by Havenhunter View Post

                Charlie, so how do you tell the difference between this material and the garden variety quartzite we find here along the lower Chesapeake Bay?
                It's been found in RI, Deb, but, I have no personal experience with it, and, to the best of my knowledge, I have never found any. There are enough good photos of it out there, that I believe I would recognize it if I found any, but if I thought I had a piece, I would still need to have an experienced hand look at it to confirm any suspicions I had.
                Last edited by CMD; 12-16-2017, 09:51 AM.

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                • #27
                  Originally posted by Havenhunter View Post

                  Charlie, so how do you tell the difference between this material and the garden variety quartzite we find here along the lower Chesapeake Bay?
                  One could at least start with the fact that it will be a translucent grey sugar quartz quartzite. So, sugar quartz, as it's sometimes called, and the first comment in this thread shows the sugar texture very well, is a clue....

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                  • #28
                    Originally posted by Havenhunter View Post

                    Charlie, so how do you tell the difference between this material and the garden variety quartzite we find here along the lower Chesapeake Bay?
                    This is the closest I've come as a candidate from our personal finds, but, again, someone with lots of experience would need to examine it....

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                    • Ron Kelley
                      Ron Kelley commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That looks exactly like some of the pictures of Ramah Chert that I have seen.

                    • CMD
                      CMD commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yeah, I have to admit, while photographing it this morning, I did think "this really is a good possibility I'll bet."

                  • #29
                    Thanks Charlie, I thought it looked close to the Tallahatta Quartzite too. I would only be able to compare if / when I have a chance to knap a little Ramah Chert. The Tallahatta is translucent too. Here are a couple shots of Tallahatta.
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                    Michigan Yooper
                    If You Don’t Stand for Something, You’ll Fall for Anything

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                    • CMD
                      CMD commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Beautiful stuff, Ron. I've heard of it, but never owned a piece made of Tallahatta. Great job with that material, Ron.

                  • #30
                    The ones I owned were of the darker material. Elfshot has many great photos of the lithic.
                    TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                    • CMD
                      CMD commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Elfshot is the best. It's more likely my triangle is just another sugar quartz. Ramah seems to be universally darker...
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