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Unfluted Clovis vs Indented Base

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  • Unfluted Clovis vs Indented Base

    Here is a good question I believe somewhere here can help me gain some knowledge about. I have some arrowheads or "some kinda artifacts" (LOL) here that I would like to know more about. If you guys need more pictures, just let me know what you need and I will try to get them on here as soon as possible. All three of these were found at the same site (actually the same as that super patinated Savannah knife). Two of these I shared with man that is a NC archeologist/geologist who knows any lithic material that occurs naturally in the state and many other exotic materials. Anyways these are obvious rhyolite materials but I asked if they are unfluted Clovis'. They are a known type to me. He said no they are indented base which are much older. I see the indented base that is distinctive on them two. I should have asked more questions but his time was of the essence. Does anyone here have any knowledge of indented base points compared to unfluted Clovis'? Also I want second opinions bc I believe these are a sign telling just how old the site really is.

  • #2
    Here are two more for review.

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    • #3
      They say anythings possible, never heard of this indented base point and it being pre-clovis though. Sandia was kind of a bogus pre-clovis point too. Those actually don't look finished either, more like preforms to who knows, not Clovis though. But they are nice looking and good pictures, Thanks
      http://joshinmo.weebly.com

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      • #4
        Here is an image, that I cropped, of a chronological chart for types/dates found in North Carolina. This was sent to my email for my reference on the estimated age of the indented base type. The point pictured in that image is bad quality so i have doubts. However, I do wonder if that is what I really found. I would like to learn more and see more examples from others out in the field.

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        • JoshinMO
          JoshinMO commented
          Editing a comment
          Cool, I wonder Who put that together? So, The Clovis is in middle Paleo period lol.

      • #5
        Taterman, nothing wrong with being optimistic. Most People believe there is Pre-Clovis and there probably is (maybe even above/^) and I read something about a site recently in The NW that could be. Proof is what makes People believer's. Clovis was used very long ago, to Hunt Mastodon,Mammoth and probably many other extinct Animals. We know (assuming these Archaeological studies being honest) this because The Points were found with The bones of these Animals. In rib cages and such, and many other extinct Animal Bones found in these Camp's/Sites. One type called Cumberland is thought by some to be used during Clovis/Paleo times and maybe even before. But maybe You will get more honest opinions on this subject.

        Some book's get time periods of types mixed up, good books still just confusing. One book might call a dalton late paleo and another will call dalton early archaic. But "You never know". It's just Clovis is believed to be the start/Paleo, here anyway.
        http://joshinmo.weebly.com

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        • #6
          There are several concave base types probably found in your area that aren't paleo. Unfluted Clovis is pretty rare and usually finely made and thinner than a wafer. Clovis people sought out the best materials they could source. I believe the items you show fit better within the middle archaic thru woodland period . I'm not looking into references right now but check out types like Connerly or Guilford. Hope that helps! Cool items though, thanks for sharing!
          Last edited by Kyflintguy; 06-17-2017, 07:09 AM.
          Josh (Ky/Tn collector)

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          • #7
            Hi TM. It looks like you are showing us three different artifacts if I am interpreting correctly your pics from your 2 different posts in this thread. There are no Paleo artifacts Clovis or otherwise that I see. Lanceolate shaped points were made in all time periods of Native American prehistory and there are many, many types and they often are difficult to identify even when beautiful and well made.. The first piece that you show looks to be unfinished and thus can not be IDed. The other two points look like middle Archaic knife points of some type. Also, FWIW, no such point type as an indented base Clovis. Also, when talking about basal shapes if the base looks to be "indented" the proper term is incurvate.

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            • #8
              Howdy folks. The picture you put up of artifacts from Harnett county was probably made by Truett, he used to be a member here, those are his opinions on different types but unproven. The concave base that the person was telling you made the blade older, was probably referring to a Yuma style guilford blade. Cool finds from NC!

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              • JoshinMO
                JoshinMO commented
                Editing a comment
                Truett huh, I think I remember Him. Maybe A guitar for an avatar and posted lot's about Clovis and Paleo stuff. Thanks!

              • SDhunter
                SDhunter commented
                Editing a comment
                Way to remember that!

            • #9
              Josh, Chris Gode has the guitar avatar, but I do vaguely remember Truett
              South Dakota

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              • JoshinMO
                JoshinMO commented
                Editing a comment
                OK, Mybad. He had long hair? Joking

            • #10
              Truett was it. I do believe in pre Clovis but I was just trying to learn more about what I found and the site I found it. If they are Archaic forms then I cool with that regardless. I am not 100% in belief though of pre Clovis until the best evidence is provided. I have read the recent archeological finds that suggest pre Clovis sites also. When think of ancient sites I think that is where ancient people have been living or been relatively nearby there the longest in time. I believe that Clovis was definitely of great importance bc it forever changed the technology of making weapons for survival, mostly because the way it was created. It was like a paradigm though, a model or pattern that was a cognitive framework. Clovis' arrowheads can be found pretty much anywhere in the US/ Canada/ Europe but Hardaway for example derives from a small region of the US. Correct me if I'm wrong, Hardaway Dalton types were based, or were made according to their lifestyle/environment, from Clovis. But then again, I can't remember where I read this so I can't cite this bc it was a while back. But the more West you travel, the archaic period had done began before the Paleolithic period could end in the east. I may have it backwards, but could I get refreshed on what I thought I read.
              Last edited by Taterman421; 06-22-2017, 10:11 PM.

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              • #11
                Originally posted by SDhunter View Post
                Josh, Chris Gode has the guitar avatar, but I do vaguely remember Truett
                I just wan't to say if You search Truett in Kiva there is even a Topic I created about Him year's ago. Sorry Chris, but I remember Truett being into Guitar's or Music, all of His pic's is deleted now though. jhill0962 (banned) even has guitar's in avatar.
                http://joshinmo.weebly.com

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