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At Chuck's Request....

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  • At Chuck's Request....

    In the thread below, I posted a photo showing miniature fluted points of the Barnes variety. Barnes is a Post-Clovis form of fluted point. Some see a relationship with Cumberland, others point out the technology is different, they simply resemble each other in form, to some degree, and both tend to have full length fluting channels at times. Anyway, as noted in that thread, I just brought the subject up because some comments seem to suggest the existence of miniature fluted points might not be generally known.




    But, to the point, and the reason for this thread. Chuck asked that I post a photo of a miniature fluted point that either myself or my wife found. It's a little embarrassing since this is not the kind of fluted point that causes one to faint right on the spot. And indeed, I would not blame anyone if they said "give me a break". So, what I will do is post an article I wrote for Indian Artifact Magazine, in 2012. That mag was a great hardcopy venue for collectors. Edited by Gary Fogelman, it went out of business several years ago, after a long run, because Gary and his wife wanted to retire, and they could find no buyers for continuing its publication. So I'm thinking I can post this OK at this point in time, and I do so as it includes the opinions of 3 of the leading authorities on Paleo sites in New England, as well as the opinions of other regional authorities, commenting on this point. Chuck and anyone else can read the article, and form their own opinions.

    So Chuck, don't laugh. Lol.

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    Rhode Island

  • #2
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    Rhode Island

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    • #3
      The forum is not cooperating with me today when loading photos. Hence I required three comments to get the photos in. Anyway, here is a size comparison seen next to miniature Barnes points as illustrated by Boudreau...

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      As seen in the third photo in the second post, the point suffered a tip impact, which is kinda cool in my book, and better then other types of breakage, IMHO.....
      Last edited by CMD; 09-18-2018, 11:36 AM.
      Rhode Island

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      • #4
        Here's is another small fluted point made of quartzite, and also from RI. In his expanded typology, Boudreau stated "this is a true fluted point". It was found by William Fowler, an avocational archaeologist who was a charter member of both the Massachusetts Archaeological Society and the Narragansett Archaeological Society. Fowler can be considered the father of prehistoric studies in southern New England. He excavated this point from glacial sand at the Twin Rivers site in northern RI, a site that was excavated by the now defunct Narragansett Archaeological Society...

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        Rhode Island

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        • #5
          Here is a larger fluted point from Ky., from my collection, and made of a "sugar quartz" variety of quartzite. It's possible, I imagine, that it too might be an example of the difficulty encountered in fluting a material like quartzite....

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          Rhode Island

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          • #6
            The first one was a wee bit tiny, but I like it. I love the "sugar quartz" point! I did not know that mini variations existed. When I think of a fluted point, I envision a foot long behemoth meant to kill mammoths, so that's why I am very skeptical about tiny variety's. Good article though.
            "The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. Lee

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            • OnewiththewilD
              OnewiththewilD commented
              Editing a comment
              A lot of times those behemoth blades where probably used as knifes. And they weren’t only hunting mastodon they hunted small game too. And remember small goes deep big just makes big cuts.

            • Scorpion68
              Scorpion68 commented
              Editing a comment
              Good Points Jay - no pun intended.

          • #7
            I didn't read the article yet but just wanted to throw this on here... I'm certainly no expert, so take this with a grain of salt... but I often wonder if what many people attribute to the paleo period simply are not. I have found three broken bases at my woodland site that have huge thinning flakes that almost look like flutes. I also have a fox creek point that has thinning flakes on it that resemble the same small flutes in the first post. Just looks a little flake with that big step fracture on it.
            Last edited by filmiracl; 09-18-2018, 01:33 PM.

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            • #8
              Thanks for all the information you have provided on this subject. 👍🏼

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              • #9
                Yes thank you Charlie your a good teacher .

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                • #10
                  Wanted to throw my hat in the ring.. a possible fluted point from Massachusetts.

                  Not sure on the material, and it was likely an early point. Might bring this one to the meeting sunday.
                  Can’t find em sitting on the couch; unless it’s in a field

                  Comment


                  • OnewiththewilD
                    OnewiththewilD commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes!

                  • CMD
                    CMD commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That be hornfels! I enlarged the photo to be sure.

                • #11
                  Super article Charlie - Thanks for posting it. When I first saw your fluted quartzite point, I to questioned the difficulty of fluting quartzite lithic. I know it's difficult to knap and there's very little tell from the process. You don't typically see the distinct flaking pattern that you would on chert. However, even with that in my mind, I had to agree with you that it was definitely fluted. The fact that it was fluted on both sides is where I hang my hat otherwise it could have been an attempt at reduction. I really believe you have realized your lifelong dream of a Paleo fluted poiint. This has been quite an education for me as I always think of Clovis and Cumberland when I think of fluted points. I also had to chuckle at Bill Moody's opinion regarding the weathering of quartzite because I always had the opinion that it weathered badly. Bill put that to rest in no uncertain terms and with his experience, he should know. Well - again Charlie you've taught this old dog some new tricks and I intend to take them to heart. Thanks again for taking the time and trouble to post it.
                  Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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                  • CMD
                    CMD commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Your most welcome, Chuck. I had old photos of it, so it was easy enough to write up, and I do like to write, lol...

                • #12
                  Hi,

                  Here’s a few pictures of a Morrow Mountain from my collection. I have always called this basal thinning because it’s not done for the same purpose as fluting.

                  Von
                  Last edited by Von; 09-18-2018, 09:53 PM.

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                  • CMD
                    CMD commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nice point. I have many later Point types with basal thinning as well. And, for that matter, despite grinding being almost defined as an indicator of "early", many later points that are ground.

                  • Von
                    Von commented
                    Editing a comment
                    As you can see there’s no sign of grinding on this point but I’m pretty sure it was an atlatl projectile point. I hear ya and have a bunch of Kirk’s that show signs of grinding and one point that I can’t figure out? It looks like a Guilford with a ground base.

                    Von

                • #13
                  I love that little thang....supa nice!
                  Wandering wherever I can, mostly in Eastern Arkansas, always looking down.

                  Comment


                  • Von
                    Von commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It’s one of my favorites and the only Morrow Mountain I have seen with a flake out of the base like this. I’m sure there are others out there but this one is really cool.

                    Von

                • #14
                  One thing I learned after that article was written is that miniature fluted points, apparently made small, and not simply resharpened many times, are far more common then I ever realized. Because it's a surface find, and atypical, I myself will always have questions. On the other hand, when the three leading authorities on Paleo studies in New England favored a Paleo assignment of age, I can probably assume that much. I at least have to respect those opinions. I don't have anywhere near their experience with fluted points. If it's older then our Hardaway-Dalton variant, that makes it Late Paleo at least. It's not a Fox Creek, their metrics are known to never fall in that size range, and they are not ground. The example from the Twin River site is the same size(its tip was restored by Fowler), is also made of quartzite, and was confirmed as a fluted point by the late Jeff Boudreau. And short flutes in quartzite is more the rule then exception.

                  But, there is one other possible ID, and it is a New England type known as Parallel Stem, only recently found in context for the first time at the Sandy Hill site in Ct. Boudreau suggested, regarding Parallel Stems, that "the most logical ancestral candidate is the 'miniature' fluted point. It may be the sole surviving, useful projectile point concept of the entire fluted point tradition"( quote from p. 149 of Boudreau's expanded New England typology). This possibility intrigues me, since while I have found Parallel Stem points, none had flutes, or even flute-like thinning, yet the fluted tradition lasted longer in New England then anywhere else in North America. This may be an example of a "fluted" Parallel Stem, and if Boudreau was correct in believing they are the last survivor of the fluted tradition, it would make sense since it's here that that tradition lasted longer then anywhere else. Which would make this find one of our most interesting.

                  Here are a couple examples of Parallel Stem points found by a friend many years ago.

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                  Last edited by CMD; 09-19-2018, 05:23 PM.
                  Rhode Island

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                  • #15
                    Super point Charlie! A very interesting read.

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