North American NA's Didn't Develop Alcohol..

[Olden]

.
Why not - the rest of the world did early on.
Just about every account you'll read mentions the natives being plied with cheap rum before trading their land away. Any joking aside, alcohol does have medicinal benefits as well. Opinions?
well, maybe one..
The politically correct drinker ~

* Added Info: I found this link to a discussion in '07

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431692

[CMD]

I think they preferred medicinal plants. Plenty of them Peyote, mescaline, ayahuasca...

[OnewiththewilD]

as far as i know,no,they didnt ,not north america anyways.in fact the lack of cultural use of alcohol led them to being easily plyed with it to loosen em" up and drop their guards.with no contact or experiance with alcohol they didnt know how to control themselfs and had little physical tolerance to it.a war-like culture filled with young braves and strong drink was a dangerous mix.im sure the elders had a hell ova' time keeping everyone in line as best they could.and to this day some still suffer from alcoholism,but then again,what culture dosnt?

[Olden]

CMD wrote:

I think they preferred medicinal plants. Plenty of them Peyote, mescaline, ayahuasca...

  I think I'm going to have to agree Charlie - up until Early Historic times it seems that it just wasn't agreeable to them. Perhaps cultural changes, population size being diminished through disease, and general depression had set in? Once alcohol's general use (and addiction), was established - the rest was history.
Thought I'd go looking around the web for some additional plant info (of the stimulating types) to see what other things may have been used before alcohols arrival.
Ran across this: Carlo Castaneda's books - the SW anthropologist and writer who blended his knowledge of Indian drug use -and- fiction into some popular reading. Here's a guy trying to sort it out ~

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/carlos_datura.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuAn8UJeMgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGRSIlLzxnE

This stuff, Datura (Jimson Weed) is native and found all over the US: made it's way from here to overseas - now it's a bane to livestock everywhere. A friend's younger brother, and his friend, ate a single flower each: both went to the hospital, and were incoherent for three days (don't try this at home).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium

I found this interesting list of plants -and- descriptions compiled by our own U.S. Forest Service

http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/ethnobotany/mindandspirit/stimulants.shtml

Looks as though marijuana will pretty much be legalized in this country soon, and be giving the big business of alcohol a run for it's money - can only help in my opinion.
Think I'll just lay right chair in this purty field ah grass, an' think s'more about dis..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENWV5pqWSA

[Olden]

OnewiththewilD wrote:

as far as i know,no,they didnt ,not north america anyways.in fact the lack of cultural use of alcohol led them to being easily plyed with it to loosen em" up and drop their guards.with no contact or experiance with alcohol they didnt know how to control themselfs and had little physical tolerance to it.a war-like culture filled with young braves and strong drink was a dangerous mix.im sure the elders had a hell ova' time keeping everyone in line as best they could.and to this day some still suffer from alcoholism,but then again,what culture dosnt?

  You're right about that Jay: any -and- all cultures get a little 'too loose' under the effects of too much. Who hasn't seen the accidental bullet fired out the house wall, a fool that's decided to swim the river in Dec., or someone killing themselves (or others) while going to the package store to re-up their supply? Definitely not just the NA's!
I think young braves were/are always a handful for the Elders to control. After being swindled out of their land and sobering up to the reality of it, the 'resentment dies' for the opposing cultures in the 'new world' were set in stone ~
Japanese Proverb: The man takes a drink; the drink takes a drink; the drink takes the man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWXLlmujURk&list=PLF0JVMWLn66LUZoZLnJhn1Sl_T4FVZKBx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxxBiPBAjg8

Stay cool man - I want you on my side in a fight!

[painshill]

It’s not completely correct to say that Native Americans didn’t develop alcoholic beverages. Putting aside several South American and Meso-American cultures that produced such drinks in pre-Columbian times there are a few instances of Native American use in the North.
Various cultures living in the region from northern Mexico to the southwestern United States produced a mildly alcoholic fermented drink known as “tiswin” or “niwai” which had a principally ceremonial use. The Apache made it from maize and the Tohono O'odham made it from saguaro sap.
The Tarahumara of northwest Mexico produced a kind of beer called “tesguino” from fermented corn, agave or wheat and other alcoholic beverages from fruits such as peaches, crab-apples, cactus fruits, various berries or mesquite seeds. Although such drinks were regarded as ceremonial, the frequency of consumption reported suggests either a very liberal definition of what constitutes a “ceremony” or else a very large number of “sacred days” in the calendar.     :whistle:
Recent archaeological evidence has also confirmed that a similar maize-based alcoholic drink was made by the ancestors of the Pueblo peoples. The Iroquois also fermented sap from the sugar maple tree to produce a mildly alcoholic beverage.
Generally, foods which are high in starch – such as corn – require the starch to be converted to sugar for efficient fermentation. Many cultures achieved this by boiling and chewing the material first, since the enzyme alpha-amylase in saliva converts cooked starch to maltose.  :dry:

[OnewiththewilD]

i also think they used a variety of natural "highs",like fasting,dehydration,and heat exposure,and pain to reach other dream like (and close to death)states.as far as jimbsom weed,the alkaloids in it react differant to differant people,while some might go "to the moon",others might end up in the morgue. :blink: talk about a bad trip,dont try this at home kids!plus its closely related to belladonna if that tells ya anything! i know some of their ceremonys also involved the intake of plants that had a purging effect to cleanse the body,both spiritually and physically.look up "the black drink".seems like fun... :sick:

[Olden]

painshill wrote:

It’s not completely correct to say that Native Americans didn’t develop alcoholic beverages. Putting aside several South American and Meso-American cultures that produced such drinks in pre-Columbian times there are a few instances of Native American use in the North.
Various cultures living in the region from northern Mexico to the southwestern United States produced a mildly alcoholic fermented drink known as “tiswin” or “niwai” which had a principally ceremonial use. The Apache made it from maize and the Tohono O'odham made it from saguaro sap.
The Tarahumara of northwest Mexico produced a kind of beer called “tesguino” from fermented corn, agave or wheat and other alcoholic beverages from fruits such as peaches, crab-apples, cactus fruits, various berries or mesquite seeds. Although such drinks were regarded as ceremonial, the frequency of consumption reported suggests either a very liberal definition of what constitutes a “ceremony” or else a very large number of “sacred days” in the calendar.     :whistle:
Recent archaeological evidence has also confirmed that a similar maize-based alcoholic drink was made by the ancestors of the Pueblo peoples. The Iroquois also fermented sap from the sugar maple tree to produce a mildly alcoholic beverage.
Generally, foods which are high in starch – such as corn – require the starch to be converted to sugar for efficient fermentation. Many cultures achieved this by boiling and chewing the material first, since the enzyme alpha-amylase in saliva converts cooked starch to maltose.  :dry:

  Interesting. I've always looked at the SW U.S. and the Mesoamerican lands south of there as practically interchangeable. Farming techniques used in cultivation of crops such as maize and cocoa, animal husbandry, and maybe other cultural -and- building ideas (Cahokia Mounds?): all headed North - don't think it was a geographical 'roll of the dice' though: aliens helped 'em (saw it on the History Channel) The ideas for alcoholic drinks were probably diversified, and improved upon by the SW U.S. Natives, but probably originated further south. I'll leave the T's to be crossed, and I's to be dotted to someone more knowledgeable than myself though. A liberal definition of what constitutes a “ceremony” in that expansive, hot -and- arid place: two people sitting in the shade at noon.