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  • Baby Birdies

    I have found that the longer I hunt, the more I reflect on what I find to try to hear it's story. It's a point. Big Deal, but what does it and all the others you found with it tell you about the area you are hunting.
    Recently, I had one of many confrontations with an academic arch friend of mine concerning a type of point and what it means. I find it very frustrating that kids with a couple of years of "book learning" and not field "clod kicking" time is so quick to make up their minds about things and disregard any optional theories, especially if they are from an "outsider" like me (outsider being a non-arch amature collector).
    I volunteer with the local arch society to investigate sites in the area. I have learned so much about the cultures behind the artifacts in doing so, and even though I cannot keep any of the finds, it is still a rush to come up on a really nice piece. I would recommend it to any of you who are interested in the story behind those finds. As with me, there was some distrust initially, but they have learned to trust and respect me and actually use my background (geology) when needed. Nevertheless, there are those moments.
    Recently, we were conducting some test digs in an area and were coming across some very small madison-type points. One of the professors at the site was excited, as he and some others are publishing the point as a new type. Many of you in the southeast have seen these. They are the ones many say were used in blowguns; a theory I find rediculous, as I have experience with blow guns from Borneo and there is no way you can get that point through a blowgun with any significant power. That is why in SE asia and SA they use sharpened bamboo - very affective. Anyway, we began talking about the point and what they may have been used for. Their view was that these were used for small foul and animals as sort of a light game point. I agree up to a "point". Where I differ is they view them as adult weapons. I do not.
    In my 45 years of kicking dirt clods, I have seen a lot of areas with these points. In almost all of the areas, the points are exclusive and typically found with greenstone farm implements, hoes, celts, etc). So in my many hours of walking (in between the fantasies of finding a clovis cache) I began to wonder what that meant. What would you say was the most important skill an indian could have in say woodland times? (pause for effect). It would have been the ability to put food on the table (or dirt floor) whichever the case may be.
    Early accounts by Europeans have indicated that the vast gardens associated with the villages were maintained or guarded by the children to keep animals and birds out. Hunting was a primary skill for (I assume the boys/men) of the community. To me, it would make sense if I were a Dad in that setting, to show my son 1) how to make a bow and 2) how to use it. Now at 6 or 8, you would not be able to pull an adult bow to use it, so it only makes sense that they would have made scaled down versions that they could handle. Madison (triangular) points also, would have been an easy point to teach your son to make, but again, you would make them scaled down for the size of the bow being used. In this way, your son is learning both how to make these essential items for survival and also how to use them on crow, turkey, squirrels, etc. Any game they got would be included in the stew with pride and eventually they would work into standard issue weaponry. That would explain why you find so many with greenstone in areas obviously used for farming. When you think of the number of kids and the time they would have farmed an area, it would explain the usual abundance of the points in restricted areas.
    As for adult use, a typical arrow shaft would have probably been about 3/8 inch in diameter and many of these micro-hamilton/madisons are less than that and less than 1/2 inch long, so how would you lash it without having just a large mess at the end of your arrow. It (to me) makes more sense to have these associated with the "lego" version where arrows were probably less than 1/4 inch in diameter.
    What do you think?



    Moderator Note: although the above image has the correct filename, I suspect it is not the correct image.

  • #2
    I believe most true arrowheads are quite similar in size to that one, triangular or not.  These same kind and time period of point were used very effectively against Spaniards in Tampa Bay.  I believe it would take down a bird or a deer or a man.  As you said, some cultures used just pointed shafts with no rock on the end at all, and not just in blow darts.  Most larger "types" in that time period were used as knives, IMHOP.  I think a preponderance of them in certain areas denotes good hunting grounds with lots of lost points.
    some woodland Pinellas points, (or whatever else some typologist needs to call 'em!!), true arrowheads, from Pinellas Co., FL,  chert and coral

    And a greasy agate Weedon Island point, also a true arrowhead, Hillsborough Co, FL

    Some small ones given to me, don't know from where they came....not FL

    Professor Shellman
    Tampa Bay

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    • #3
      Litho - I think your connection with the archaeology side of our hobby is great.  I've consulted with local archaeologists and find much the same mindset except in some of the older guys.  However, I don't think I agree totally with your assessment of "bird points."  I've been finding a fairly large ratio of them compared to some of the larger points.  Like Tom, I believe they could have been used against either small game, hence the bird point terminology, or equally effective against larger game.  All of the bird points that I have would also fit a standard sized shaft and probably prove equally effective.  ---Chuck
      Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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      • #4
        I love bird points, but the term confuses some people. Here in the west, it's common to find 1/4" to 3/4 " points associated with Buffalo kill sites. We find a lot of true arrowheads here because they were the most recent occupation, thus the majority of the surface finds are fairly recent (in the spectrum of North American archaeology). I know of sites that have nothing but arrowheads, and I'm sure if I were to dig down would find atl atl darts too. Here is my smallest point I have ever come across. I found near a possible Big Horn sheep trap on my uncle's ranch. (we are currently doing research on the trap to determine it's age).
        I am also doing illustrations for Colorado State University, and the points I'm drawing are all from the high mountain game drives on the continental divide. They are all what most would consider "bird" points, but there weren't many birds or other small mammals on the divide. They did kill ptarmigan, but those were netted and killed with sticks or clubs. They would not have wasted their arrows on ignorant birds they could kill with a stick. These stone game drives were used for Elk, Mule Deer, and Big Horn Sheep. Out of the 10 points I am drawing from a site (one of hundreds on the continental divide), only 2 are possible darts. I don't think it was the game being hunted as much as what type of bow, and arrows they were using that determined the size of the point. Anyone who shoots traditional archery understands how much the weight of the point effects the trajectory and force behind the point. Penetration is everything, and the smaller the point = the more penetrable.

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        • #5
          Tim
          These small triangular points are found all over the Americas and when attached to an arrow and shot at anything living will cause a lot of damage, and if the animal is hit in the right place it will bleed out and die. Once this point penetrates and the animal runs away with the arrow lodged in it, the up an down motion of the shaft will cause further damage.
          There have been a few skeletons found in Texas that had these type of points lodged in them.
          Here are a few of mine. All Texas material.


          Jack

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          • #6
            Hi Tom,  Yes I agree.  The photo I included was not really representative of the group I have found which might have a total length of say 3/8 inch and 1/4 inch wide.  I did not have any pics readily available.  I have heard speculation that they were blow gun darts, tatoo needles, or just small versions of the standards.  I agree with the latter but I also think they were used primary by the younguns.  larger triangles in the same area could have been used by adults or older youth.  Just thought I would throw it out there and listen to what others think.  Thanks for the input.

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            • #7
              Where I have observed the highest concentration of birdies (excluding mound sites) has been in association with farm implements suggesting a field/crops. I have always thought this would have been a convenient training ground for young boys to learn the use of the bow and arrow as well as other hunting tools. I do find the usual points as well, and they could be from older youth or adults, but it is obvious that the points were used in the fields, apparently to kill scavengers of their crops. I will have to get some pics of my small ones. Here is a composite frame of some others I have.

              http://forums.arrowheads.com/media/k...an_Birdies.JPG not found

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              • #8
                Litho - I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't agree.  What you're saying does make sense but I'm not sure the ancients were that socialized.  Tyson - that has to be the smallest point I've ever seen.

                These are my smallest.  The Black one is Jacks Reef and the other two I think are St. Albans.  ---Chuck
                Pickett/Fentress County, Tn - Any day on this side of the grass is a good day. -Chuck-

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                • #9
                  I don't see how you could draw a conclusion like the smaller the point the smaller the archer?  That would mean, the only one's operating the communal game drives were kids?  Or do you all think they were just smaller people?  I think it's more simple than that.  Here in the west, we don't have good bow wood.  We don't have a lot of hard woods that the mid-west has.  We have juniper, and conifers that were used as bow wood.  They could only be used for "short bows", and therefore too small to fire larger projectiles.  The only "bird points" displayed on this thread are all around an inch long, which out west we wouldn't even consider a bird point.  The blow gun theory is the most ridiculous!  I tend to go off from history, and there are written historical accounts of the Shoeshone using game drives with bows, but no mention of only children running them.  They were grown men, using short bows with small projectiles...

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                  • #10
                    Here's a few from Ohio, all found together.

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                    • #11
                      Hi Chuck, thanks.  I like dissagreement, it spawn thought.  As for the Mississippian culture they were very socialized.
                      A number of cultural traits are recognized as being characteristic of the Mississippians. Although not all Mississippian peoples practiced all of the following activities, they were distinct from their ancestors in adoption of some or all of these traits.
                      1.The construction of large, truncated earthwork pyramid mounds, or platform mounds. Such mounds were usually square, rectangular, or occasionally circular. Structures (domestic houses, temples, burial buildings, or other) were usually constructed atop such mounds.
                      2.Maize-based agriculture. In most places, the development of Mississippian culture coincided with adoption of comparatively large-scale, intensive maize agriculture, which supported larger populations and craft specialization.
                      3.The adoption and use of riverine (or more rarely marine) shell-tempering agents in their ceramics.
                      4.Widespread trade networks extending as far west as the Rockies, north to the Great Lakes, south to the Gulf of Mexico, and east to the Atlantic Ocean.
                      5.The development of the chiefdom or complex chiefdom level of social complexity.
                      6.The development of institutionalized social inequality.
                      7.A centralization of control of combined political and religious power in the hands of few or one.
                      8.The beginnings of a settlement hierarchy, in which one major center (with mounds) has clear influence or control over a number of lesser communities, which may or may not possess a smaller number of mounds.
                      9.The adoption of the paraphernalia of the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex (SECC), also called the Southern Cult. This is the belief system of the Mississippians as we know it. SECC items are found in Mississippian-culture sites from Wisconsin (see Aztalan State Park) to the Gulf Coast, and from Florida to Arkansas and Oklahoma. The SECC was frequently tied in to ritual game-playing, as with chunkey.

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                      • #12
                        Agreed, but in the SE you had different hunting styles, plenty of wood resources, and plenty of lithic resources.  Most Madisons/Hamiltons here are around 3/4 to 1 3/4 inches in length suggesting this was the optimum length for these point types.  The smaller ones do not indicate extensive resharpening which would suggest they were deliberately made at those dimensions.  I am not an absolutist to say that only children would have used these, but what I am saying is it is documented by early european explorers that a primary role of the children were to care for the crops to keep birds and such out.  In my area of hunting (and I stress in only those areas where I have direct observations in Alabama) I have observed concentrations of the small (smaller than what I would consider average point size) not associated with kill sites, but agricultural sites as indicated by the lack of larger points and the above normal amount of greenstone artifacts.  I am the first to say that 1.  This is just my view from my observations.  2.  I would not event speculate to draw conclusions to other areas as the cultures, especially between the southeast and west, and hunting environments were quite different.  I do find it interesting that you find so many at large game kill sites out west and I never really considered the resource aspect for the plains "equipment". 
                        I think we are trying to compare apples to pineapples here in that my understanding of western occupations at that time were largely nomadic.  Here, the occupations were mostly sessile agricultural communities with a very sophisticated social structure.  You have given me something to think about though.  Thanks.

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                        • #13
                          Tim
                          I have a garden and the birds are a problem with my tomatoes and pequin peppers. The Mocking Birds love the pequin peppers and wait tell their red to gulp them down. I also had to remove a few cotton tail rabbits as they love to munch on my seedlings.
                          I got a grocery store down the street to buy anything the birds eat but the natives did not have this luxury, so protecting their food source would be a top priority and using children to do so  would make sense. Child labor would fit this need.
                          Its something to think about and to do some study on.
                          Jack

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                          • #14
                            I agree with you that we can't compare the areas, I am just putting in my two cents about some other possibilities.  I also agree with you that there is a strong correlation between the more nomadic western people compared to the more sedentary cultures of the southeast, and the overall size of the artifacts.  I was also thinking of another possibility of why we have smaller points.  During the historic occupation, they were in the transition of acquiring horses, so that could be why they are so small too.  They couldn't use the typical plains bow on horseback and would most likely have used the smallest length bow.  I do find it interesting your point about the children being in charge of guarding the crops.  Makes sense, I just don't know if that correlates with the size of the point?  I think there is some validity to it, but I don't think that's all of it.  Good thread either way!

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                            • #15
                              Awesome ideas provoke a great thread! Everything you guys are saying is true in each sense and locality. Gives one a lot to think about! Thanks, Paul

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