New Museum - Turtle Shell Artifact

[Mmerc20]

I'm not sure if this is an artifact but I haven't gotten a straight answer yet. I personally found this little box turtle shell in the middle of the woods near a stream but not any civilization, or any I could see on historic maps. It has two holes drilled in the back side and some internal scraping marks but nothing else to note. I assumed if they were bite marks from a predator, there would be cracking around the holes so that's why I think they were drilled. Any clue?

[painshill]

Those holes are definitely not natural, nor from a predator. They are in the typical position for the shell to have been made into a rattle, usually filled with pebbles and occasionally with hard seeds such as Canna seeds or even freshwater drumfish teeth. The holes are for attachment of a perpendicular wooden handle and usually the plastron (missing on your piece) would be sealed to the carapace with asphaltum. Small turtle shells were also worn as "body rattles" in the Mississippian period by strapping them to the ankles or upper arms... usually by females for dance rituals... but they have a different pattern of holes made in them than your item.

[OnewiththewilD]

( listen to Roger!)

[painshill]

nope thats a fairly recent shell, and those holes look more like puncture holes than drilled holes too. id say its been dead less than 5 yrs. and those 'scrappings" are rodent knawing marks.

Nope. I didn't suggest it was necessarily tremendously old, but a lot older than 5 years. Turtle shells are moderately resistant to burial. The holes are crudely drilled or possibly "punctured", but by man and not by a predator or scavenger. Here's another one holed in exactly the same way:

[OnewiththewilD]

i would figure if its sitting out on the surface exposed it wouldnt hold its sections together fairly long. i find turtle shells quite frequently out in the woods in all different stages of decay or damage. but your example with identical holes in the same spots does seem like the same thing , and i would NEVER question your advice Roger,lol. you know more about things than i could learn in 5 life times! lol.

[painshill]

This one is typical Ojibwe construction, but many tribes used them, well into the late 19th Century.

[sneakygroundbuzzard]

im sure Roger is right,as he is one of the most intelligent folks ive had the pleasure of knowing on any forum

how ever, to me it looks like that turtle was killed by a vampire
yup im sure thats what it was
thats my story and im sticking with it

[Mmerc20]

Wow. How 'bout that. My son is asleep right now so I can't wait to tell him about our discovery.

[sneakygroundbuzzard]

Wow. How 'bout that. My son is asleep right now so I can't wait to tell him about our discovery.

i dont blame you for being excited
its not every one that gets to find a turtle that was killed by a vampire

i told you i was sticking to my story

[clovisoid]

Roger is right, man made holes, but I don't think they are for use in a rattle or anything remotely old enough to consider an ancient Indian artifact.

If you google drilled turtle shell, you see lots of examples of living turtles with drilled/punched holes. If it were a little closer to the edge (on the lip of the shell, not in the body cavity) it could have been a pet turtle kept on a leash. Cruel, but surprisingly common with box turtles. This isn't it, but people also used to use turtles as bait when shark fishing (usually hooked right the middle of the turtle.) Here is a link to someone who drilled a pet turtle to make a carrying handle:

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/man-drilled-holes-in-tortoise-s-shell-for-handle-spca-1.562558

Not sure if it's an urban legend (or rural legend) but my grandfather was a part time deputy sheriff' in Florida when he retired back in the 1950's. He said they used to use turtles on a line to find drowned people (wait a couple of days to see if the body floats, if not set the turtles loose, wait for two or three of them to center on one spot, and fish out the body with turtle bite marks on it.)

I've found and seen a lot of turtle shell from late Mississippian sites, and unless they are from a cave or well buried, they always break apart into their individual bones. For a shell to be sunbleached, and on the surface, I'd agree with Jay that it just isn't that old (5 years or less sounds about right.) Maybe there are species of turtles out there with much sturdier shells out there where the sutures are a fully fused in mature turtles, but a normal box turtle isn't one of them.

Or sneakygroundbuzzard is completely right. Turtle vampire that apparently can't tell a head from an ...

[painshill]

I have to disagree, and also clarify my previous comments.

Apologies for the tiny picture [by Margaret Bruchac], but these are turtle shell ankle-band rattles used in the Cherokee Stomp Dance. The keratin scutes have begun to peel off the underlying bony shell in some places (these were not buried items).

The hole arrangement is commensurate with the strapping used for that purpose, as opposed to the double hole at one end for a hand-held vertical shaft rattle (as I mentioned previously). These items (now in the Penn Museum) were collected from a Cherokee community in North Carolina called “Big Cove Band” between 1932 and 1940 by Speck and Whitthoft.



Turtle shell rattles of various kinds were used into relatively modern times. That still makes them artefacts, and I wasn’t suggesting that the item found was of the Mississippian cultural period… I only mentioned that as an indication of the long history of these kinds of items.

We don’t have to assume that it has been buried for hundreds of years and a buried shell would certainly survive the period of antiquity commensurate with an authentic (but recent) use. Regarding box turtles not having species with sturdy shells that are fused in adults, the opposite is actually the case. It’s that very feature which sets them aside from other turtle species and also gives them their colloquial name. This from “North American Box Turtles – A Natural History” by C. Kenneth Dodd:

[Mmerc20]

I appreciate the comments and discussion on my shell. I'm not sure what to make of it, especially since it was found about 10 feet from a small creek, next to a tree, in an area near a new development I previously lived in. Before it was built up, there wasn't much of anything out there. This is in NE Durham county NC by the way.

I guess while I "hope" it has native ties somehow, I'm more curious about the circumstances behind it and the possible age.

[taxidermist01]

Very enlightening information. Thanks Roger.

[BabaORiley]

I found this years ago in a Southern Illinois field near a marshy area. Look familiar? There are three holes but the one on the left has been kinda broken away. You can see when covered up partially they are almost identical in location to the other posted shell pic.

[painshill]

You seem to be having trouble adding pictures. Does this help?:

http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/new-member-area-gc25/tutorials-how-do-i…-gc130/167428-how-to-add-pictures-to-a-post

[BabaORiley]

I did exactly that Pains. The pics were there. Then I see that they are gone. Don't know what happened.