Stunners

[Mattern]

On my continued quest of the Stunner/ Bird Stunner. The post below is self explanatory. From this Smithsonian report Plate # LVII. And so I have once again been educated! Natives did use non sharpened arrow tips to stun certain animals. As stated here specifically Waterfowl. So here ends the saga! Kim

[flintguy]

I'd like to see an example of one of these. Not sure I've ever seen one. If it was made of bone or ivory. Should be some examples around.

[redrocks]

Interesting Kim....don't see any stone blunts .....might be a rumor started by collectors

[SGT.Digger]

Probably preserved by being frozen if these are Eskimo made . I think these guys had slate to work with not sure if there was flint up that far north. Most wood and bone artifacts were not preserved down in the lower 48 unless your Hal . I would like to see the massive amounts of finds universities have from digging in south and West Texas to corroborate some of these arrow types. I’m sure they have a few hundred laying in a drawer somewhere

[Mattern]

I'm just saying that some NA did use a stunning dart. I have to look this up in my B.O.E. Smithsonian series.

[SGT.Digger]

It’s logical. I used to have a bird arrow when I was in my teens my dad said Indians used to have similar ones. I can’t remember verbatim what he said but mentioned it’s use in taking down passenger pigeons ect.

[SGT.Digger]

this i I was trying to find a similar bird arrow that I used it’s the looped metal one and on the same page I found these small game “blunts “ 3Rivers Bunny Buster Small Game Blunts we have them today makes sense they had them back then too

[CMD]

I looked these up. Said uses “blunt force trauma” on small game. It sounds like they are designed to kill, not stun?

[Tam]

Nice share Kim . We have found bunts that are not scrappers . We believe to be just that stunted or for a bird they say . Hunting you have different weapons for differ animals so yeah ...

[CMD]

I would like to see something like this in action. Birds are killed by blunt force trauma by simply flying into a closed window. How does one get the velocity needed to strike the bird or small mammal, say a squirrel, and merely stun, not kill, the creature? I know Pueblo tribes raised turkeys, not to eat, but for their feathers, and often buried them with honor. And they raised macaws as well. I don’t think they were stunning them in order to take them captive, but what do I know really? Once they have them, they can just breed more, of course. I know there it is in a Smithsonian publication, but I am skeptical that there would be need to shoot to stun, not kill. Sorry, but I need more evidence here. The ones SGT. Digger referenced seem designed to kill by “blunt force trauma”. But please correct me if they are not designed to kill.

[SGT.Digger]

I could totally see domesticated turkeys or half wild turkeys as beneficial. During spring a hen can lay over a dozen eggs 🥚. That’s a huge resource. I think rat 🐀 and cat milk has some of the highest protein content in the animal kingdom and would be a good calorie resource but I’m sure they never milked a rat lol 😝. I have wondered if they kept other animals and milked them like some modern day indigenous folks do . Himalayas and Andes for example with the alpacas and yaks ect. I got my milk facts years ago watch Professor Veith called udderly amazing. It’s a great topic if your interested in dairy . https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QoYN1q4wEM

[tomf]

Nets for birds I've read.

[CMD]

Maybe some of you hunters out there can tell me if these are intended to kill, not simply knock out, game? I know I’m not shooting a squirrel with one of these, then running up and picking up a still living squirrel.

https://www.3riversarchery.com/buy/a...ll-game-points

This is likely all going over my head, haha, and I don’t even realize it. Maybe stunning IS about killing them. My confusion stems from interpreting “stunning” as not truly killing them, but rather, well, just as stated, simply stunning them. If one did want to capture a critter alive, would not a snare be a better idea than shooting them with a blunt? This is likely where I’m confused. Perhaps blunts were designed to kill by blunt force trauma. I just reasoned that using the word “stunners” implied not actually using lethal force, for whatever reason...

In other words, although they are here being called “stunners”, they are designed to kill by blunt force trauma, yes?

[SGT.Digger]

Yes to your last question although there may have been a need to damage something without killing for whatever reason. I was thinking stunners were for taking food dead or alive . For instance if the hunting party were far away from camp in heat of the summer the meat would spoil in 30 minutes if not gutted and an hour in the hot sun if not prepared, (I’ve had flies blow doves I had on the ground and they started to stink within an hour with guts inside) so there could have been a benefit to keep something half alive or wounded for fresher transport back to the camp , and also having something bounce off or not have deep penetration would have been useful in saving shafts from damage.would make for a great target arrow/something that could be reshot or thrown over and over . Maybe stunners suffer from the same fate as bird points as far as labeling them. I will always call them bird points but I know they could take down a Buffalo 🦬 and large game . That’s what I was raised calling them

[Mattern]

I appreciate all of the comments. However I've done a lot of reading from first person experience. Never have I read that any animals were domesticated except for birds of pray in the north east. I don't know about other parts of the U.S. Of course this doesn't mean I've read everything.

[SGT.Digger]

Dogs 🐕?

[Mattern]

Oh yes dogs! I think they would have trapped wolves.

[Tam]

Guys , like a BB gun . You never went out and did this .
Are my brother and I the only ones that made and dried cal clay to make weapons for sling shots .
Of course I put rose thorns on them for those annoying bullies .
And we were just playing so I cannot imagine what a human in survival mode did .
We had to hurl a large rock hard enough to take out a snake . I know Ron is laughing thinking of his childhood or now equipment .