another Delusional Ebay Seller

[Flyjunkie]

here's a seller from Texas who is as delusional as the seller from California I posted before is... Check out his "Bear Effigy"....

[sneakygroundbuzzard]

all i see is a rock

[Jethro355]

You gotta look real close, and squint...with both eyes closed, and use your imagination....
And....
Yeah, I got nothin.

Looks like a rock to me too.😳

[skrewkase]

I can bearly see it.

[chase]

Fly, I am at a loss as to how to deal with these "so called artifacts" We have many problems with fake artifacts that are done to authentication both sold on Ebay and through trade shows. Where do you begin? Yes reporting it will be a start but how many will just turn their head and put a deaf ear on these fakes. We have authentication from the people we trust only to find out they are only there to make a buck. A few have integrity, but all can be laid out for prey, like Pernio's later authentications. These that you have shown are very obvious, and when they get shut down, then its a matter of time before someone takes their place. Anybody have any ideas?

[JoshinMO]

There are many delusional sellers everywhere! Down the street is a local collection with points priced individually but would love to see the price of them all combined. For instance a crude one shouldered etley (maybe 4 inches) priced over 100 bucks. Yeah the regular rocks people are claiming to be artifacts or actual artifacts really overpriced "sucks" but what these folks are waiting for is a generous sucker likely shopping for gift's and such.

It seems if the sell ad's are bogus lies ebay should delete the listings and possibly even ban the user account. Or better yet maybe sellers should go straight to ebay for refunds but i imagine they have it all worded out how they are only an auction hosting site that allows users to buy and sell and how they are not responsible/buyer beware and all that stuff. If they are notified of bogus artifacts being sold or for sale on the site by specific sellers they should do the right thing. I'M Surprised artifacts can even be sold there.

I told a guy that was a buyer of artifacts (clearly a novice) that most of the "arrowheads" on ebay are fake. Well he kind of defended ebay saying it was his "go to" for everything. I don't see him around buying or selling anymore though, must have got a little confused. I don't have anything against ebay, but they should be more firm with sellers and artifacts, well the fake ones anyway.

[Havenhunter]

Not only are there more fakes being sold, but the prices listed by the legit sellers are through the roof! A Table Rock for $475? Adena for >$100+? And these aren't papered. They are like any collectible-- whatever the market will bear. It's a crime.

[pkfrey]

It's very common sense and logical what the collector can do to help solve these problems of fakes, and rocks being sold as artifacts. First and foremost, JUST DON'T BUY THEM! The less money these people take in, the more they may think about what they're selling. Second, the collector simply needs to get educated, and be aware that COAs are about worthless, and I don't care who they're from. COAs can be bought. EDUCATION-EDUCATION is your best armor when buying artifacts. Some people just simply love this hobby, some are obsessed, and some are addicted. When you reach the point of being addicted to collecting, that's when your troubles begin. The addicted collector feels like the world will end if they don't own the next artifact. You see these people frequently at auctions. They are the ones bidding three times what the artifact is really worth. At that point, it is all bout pride of ownership, not the artifact. Choose carefully what you buy, and who you buy from, and remember the world won't end if you can't buy another artifact. Stop feeding these guys your hard earned money!

[CoachG]

I'm more concerned with people trying to pass off modern made relics as authentic. They're both bad in their own right, but at least most of these rocks are just rocks. Faking an artifact as authentic when modern to me is on a whole other level.

[CMD]

My specialty is hunting and finding carved effigies. I have a knack for recognizing them. They are often tools but maybe used for more ceremonial purposes. What I am referring to are portable rock sculptures, things that are mobile as oppose to mysterious rock alignments, stone piles and circles of stone or petroglyphs on cave walls or boulders.



Most arrowhead hunters miss this impressive treasure hidden in plain sight. So bent on finding objects of war and hunting they overlook not recognizing these amazing pieces of art that are so simplistic but intricate with detail. I don’t believe modern artist would be able to recreate it today because of its holographic form. These rocks have a story to tell if you learn to perceive them in an unordinary way. They are optical illusions carved in stone thousands of years ago. These artifacts are usually classified to evolve from Paleolithic era.

The figures are often zoomorphic (of or relating to a deity or other being conceived of as having the form of an animal.) As you turn them the image will morph (change smoothly from one image to another by small gradual steps being turns) These figures or sculptures are polymorphic/polyiconic - multiple images in one.

If you keep rotating the rock ever so slight and observe the carvings from different perspectives the figure disappears and morphs into another figure. Using a light source often positioned vertically allows for other subtle characters to appear, which has a feeling of some language that is written in the stone. These artist convey amazing images that are not only very intricate in detail, using just a few carved strokes along with the rocks inherent features of color, fissures, size and shape along with the interplay of light and shadow produce masterful works of art.

One of the things I find fascinating about the designs in the rocks many of them seem to have a Mayan influence especially since we are so close to that area, some might feel like they have some Egyptian influence, and there are those that have an influence of design you would see in Hindu or Buda ruins. Then there are effigy’s that are classically Native American imagery. I feel like there are rocks from different timelines but the most intricate ones feel the oldest to me.
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Wow, the above just part of the thought process spelled right out in the listing. Seems to be honest, self taught, and absolutely delusional. Somebody in a world all his own. This might be the most "elaborate" expose of the thought process behind all the geofacts we see on artifact forums.

[Kyflintguy]

"Portable rock art" and "effigies" is becoming the most abused term I've seen here of late. It's as if these people seek to fabricate there own niche in archaeology... It's like it's only something they have the ability to interpret or see. This stuff is spreading like a disease, I'm seeing it fester out of control on Google + communities for artifact identification. The problem is no one is there to say "No"! That's all we can do is dispute, discredit and educate ! I think it's handled very well here. I think it's important that anywhere it rares it's ugly head it must be shot down when possible also...

[CMD]

Here's a very special offering by this seller. A combination flying bird/box turtle. Comes with a "make offer", so you can get this for under $169.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Artifacts-Relics-Paleo-Man-Stone-Carved-Effigy-Face-Bird-Red-Paint-Tongue-/321945893990?hash=item4af5787c66:g:S2cAAOSwnH1WaorI

[D Lee]

With all due respect, ancient portable rock art does in fact exist. There may be fakes out there, and I don't condone anyone trying to sell anything that is not authentic, be it arrowheads or otherwise. I have found a few pieces and have not tried to sell any of it, I just find it interesting, just as those who find arrowheads interesting. Some of the portable rock art are very obvious effigies or faces. When I can go out and find a piece myself, it is obviously not fake. I would ask that anyone look at the best pieces found that are very obvious as to what they are, rather than trying to discern some of the pieces that are not so obvious. Gobekli Tepe in Turkey is an archaeological site where portable rock art has been found. It has been found world wide, but is not recognized by most mainstream archaeologists, as this evidence disputes their commonly held beliefs.

[2ndoldman]

D Lee, you are correct in that there are documented pieces of portable rock art. What is being pointed out is the obvious wannabe pieces. If a person needs to squint with both eyes while sticking your tongue out the left side of your mouth and wiggling the right ear only it is not rock art.

[CMD]

With all due respect, ancient portable rock art does in fact exist. There may be fakes out there, and I don't condone anyone trying to sell anything that is not authentic, be it arrowheads or otherwise. I have found a few pieces and have not tried to sell any of it, I just find it interesting, just as those who find arrowheads interesting. Some of the portable rock art are very obvious effigies or faces. When I can go out and find a piece myself, it is obviously not fake. I would ask that anyone look at the best pieces found that are very obvious as to what they are, rather than trying to discern some of the pieces that are not so obvious. Gobekli Tepe in Turkey is an archaeological site where portable rock art has been found. It has been found world wide, but is not recognized by most mainstream archaeologists, as this evidence disputes their commonly held beliefs.

I think everyone here clearly understands that portable rock art exists. As do portable petroglyphs, another type of portable rock art. Here is a nice, and really highly unique, portable effigy example from my own collection:

https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/information-center-gc33/lithic-artifacts-technology-materials-gc71/gamestones-charmstones-effigy-items-gc79/195676-turtle-frog-effigy

[D Lee]

Thanks for the pic of your frog effigy, it is a great piece.

[CMD]

Thank you, D Lee.

[Cecilia]

I still miss your Fertile the Turtle avatar, CMD. That lil’ masterpiece really, really makes hair on my neck stand up in salute!

[antmike915]

Ebay is full of "artifakes". Nothing else to say about it.

[PyrotJedi]

I have been picking up rocks since I was a small child. I’m almost 50. Most people don’t believe these effigy rocks exist. If it’s not absolutely obvious they say it’s not real or it’s a fake. A 1D picture doesn’t do these objects justice. These people who made these were very slick and talented. They incorporated effigies into pretty much everything they used. I have tons of tools and weapons. When I started to notice these effigies I went back through my collection and found effigies on everything except for most points which I would assume is because they get reworked often from use and lost when hunting. You have to hold these stones at the correct alignment with your eye and only 1 light source. When I started recognizing the shapes and patterns it became easier and easier to find and see them. They mastered the art of hiding in plain sight. They respected all life and this was one way they showed it. It really is truly amazing what they were capable of with the technology available to them. They were just as smart as us and apparently a lot smarter than most. I can teach people how to see these if they would allow themselves to think that it’s even possible. I have taught a few people who thought I was maybe losing my mind but when they began seeing them as well they were awestruck. There are more and more people finding these stones and recognizing them for what they are. Most people only hunt “arrowheads” ,which aren’t very old or that hard to knap. They are the bringers of death and pain but life and sustenance as well. These beautiful objects are coming to light and when it finally becomes accepted as an artifact will any of the non believers apologize for being disrespectful? Probably not. And that’s part of what’s wrong with the world today. And I would love to see somebody make a fake stone like the ones I have. That’s part of the reason why they won’t legitimize these artifacts because they can’t explain exactly how they made them. Points are a dime a dozen and really not that impressive. These stones with petroglyphs and pictographs, or whatever terminology people use for these objects, are hidden in plain sight. You just have to open your eyes and you’ll see them.
Disclaimer: I’m not an expert at anything but I am smarter than Ten Bears.