effigy stone

[wanderingrock]

Hi guys.  Miss me?  Some thoughts on heat treatment please, and also maybe some education on bipolar reduction.  Maybe someone knows what kind of wear marks a person should look for if they think they may have a small hard stone billet, and pressure flaker that might have been used for making a gem point.

[tomclark]

It's a ghostly pipe smokin' point!
 

[buildsthefire]

Provide documentation of these "experts" attesting to your rocks being highly sought after artifacts. Otherwise, all you are selling here is bulls**t.

[Wildhorse]

wanderingrock; You are quite right and I can see that posting my ideas here is a complete waste of time. Sorry for not understanding your artifact. You will not be bothered by me anymore. Go ahead and contune in your seeing artifacts in those rocks,

[David Morlock]

We respond because this is a social networking site about artifacts. It wouldn't be a social network if we didn't interact with the posts. We are on here because we love the hobby and want to learn more and help others. This is a complicated hobby. Almost a war with the "artifakers" with countless battles. The more we all know the better off we will be. You post these rocks on here and ask what we think? Then we respond all the same with "they are just rocks". I'm more interested in your way of thinking than those rocks. I also respond because I lay blacktop for a living, and winter is my downtime so it keeps me occupied. Keep me entertained and send me some of that smoke you inhale before looking at those rocks then I too may see the image.

[wanderingrock]

For not buying it you guys sure are paying a lot of attention to it.  If you don't like the topic just don't respond.  I don't think you'd have responded at all if you didn't see something here. By the way, it is clearly tooled.  If for some reason you can't see it in the picture what can I say, I'm not the greatest photographer.  No one who has held the stone, or looked at it in person, has ever doubted that it was tooled.  So I don't understand why you keep saying that.  And I don't think I'm ready to take your word over theirs.  After all I was able to walk into their museum and speak with them in person.  From my perspective your just an icon and a short profile.  For all I know you could be sitting there in your underwear right now trying to feel more important by putting down something you just don't understand. B)

[gregszybala]

Thanks Wildhorse, couldn't have said it better, well maybe, or gotten more to the point, I think.

[Wildhorse]

David; I agree it is strange. A far distance from our artifacts. Should be in some other forum somewhere with dreams or visions. I would love to know if our Native Americans really made these things how? How could they have created such things with out any trace of their work?????. Perhaps they had help? Flying saucers people from space who could change stone and leave no trace???? I had a sister(gone now) who could see these kind of things. Problem was she was high most of the time and that gave her the power to see. Somewhere there has to be a way these were made?? You can't take a stone age culture and get things done by them without any trace of how they were created. I belive that our strange stones are just strange stones and there is no way we can connect them with our Native American Indians. All this is just my thinking OK.

[David Morlock]

It makes me dizzy to read this thread.LOL

[greywolf22]

So far it sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I cannot see what you are seeing. IMHO.
Jack

[wanderingrock]

You are absolutely right about natures creations, and I am very aware of the minds sense of face  and our habit of seeing things we think are there.  After all the eye only sees a small percentage of what's there and the mind fills in the rest.  I have studied this phenomena for years now, and have gone to great pains to be sure that I'm not just seeing what I want.  In time I will explain some of the steps I take to make sure there is some discipline to the mind when viewing them.  A good book on this subject is "The Ring of Truth". 
By the way, I hope you remembered where you threw those, you may want them back after you see what I intend to show over the next few days.  (I've barely scratched the surface.)  Until then just view this as a distraction say like crop circles, and have fun with it.  Like I said, I know that I required a lot more proof than what I have shown so far, and your skeptisism is well founded.

[David Morlock]

Man I just don't see it? Nature has a way of creating things that look like things the clouds are a perfect example or the face of a mountain. Combine this with the imagination of the human mind and we can see anything in everything. The fact is ancient artifacts were formed by human hands chipping , grinding, rubbing, drilling etc., and there is obvious physical evidence on the artifact of this not just rock formations. If these are in fact artifacts then I have tossed an entire museum display in the creek. You can believe what you want it makes no difference to me. Just turn off the imagination for a minute and physically look at the stone itself. I do believe in Santa though.  

[wanderingrock]

Oops, wrong second picture.  Sorry.  Here it is.
 

[wanderingrock]

Thanks for the input guys.
You know when I first stumbled upon these I just thought it was just an odd coincidence.  It's true at the time I was out hunting for arrow heads, but I was also very active in my lapidary hobby. I do everything from slabs to faceting, and so I was also looking for material to make jewelry out of.  So I am very familiar with rock types, how they fracture, and how they skin.  I also have a pretty big collection of arrowheads that I found over the years.  I have already taken these to a couple of people that are highly respected in our community to get a second opinion.  Their opinion was that these were artifacts.  One prominent collector tried real hard to get me to sell him one but I wouldn't.  After seeing some of these in person , the owner of the Flavell Museum asked me to put on a class for his group.  He was very impressed.  The curator of the St. Helens Museum practically begged me to donate one. 
That being said, if someone tried to show me one of these before I knew what I know now I would have thought them nuts, so I can imagine what some of you must think of me.  I also have seen some of the fringe sights that claim something similar, and am deeply troubled by them.  This is not the same.  So far I have been very vague, and I apologize.  Nothing I have said so far would have convinced me either.  In fact, unless I saw these in person myself, with an explanation, I don't think I would believe it either.  So I do understand the skeptisism.
As far as these being hard to see.  My opinion is that it was intentional.  I believe that they were to appear magic.  The way I convince people in person is to do a demonstration that seems like magic.  That's when the people I show start to get it.  If you know the specific set of characters that were used, and you know the pattern in which they were laid out in, it suddenly becomes a lot easier to read.  What I'm hoping to do is in time give enough information that you can find these for yourselves.  That is after all the only real proof.  Some of it is very complicated, and would take a while too explain in this forum, so please be patient.  So please bear with me while I reveal the pieces of the puzzle.  If nothing else it will be an interesting diversion.
Here's a start.  A guy in Europe saw my stuff, and sent me a picture of his.  I said if what he was finding was the same as mine it would have something like this in it.

Note the volcano, then count the shamans wearing the leopard skin hood.  Most people have seen the picture with the illusion of the old hag and the beautiful young woman.  It all depends on how the mind sees it.  I believe that to be similar to one of the techniques they used, although that's putting it simply.
Now here's the picture he sent me.

He was only trying to show the rough head image with the yellow eyes that takes a little bit to see.
What I did was take his pic, tell the computer to adjust the contrast to the extreme so it washed out to only black and white then I cut out a piece of it.  That picture is the black and white I just showed.  See if you can find where I cut it from the original pic.
I have to go to work now so don't have time to say more , but I'll write more later.  Have fun with this.  I know I do.

[David Morlock]

Looks like a plain old rock to me.
Tom you need to slow down. You will break some good stuff digging  that fast :lol:  :lol:  :lol: