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Paleo knife or clovis pre form

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  • Paleo knife or clovis pre form

    Utah

  • #2
    Very nice. Very Old. With that fine edge work-Looks like a Paleo or very Early Archaic Knife to me.

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    • #3
      That is a great looking biface. What state is it from?
      Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

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      • #4
        Hi smbore.That's a dandy point you have there. What section of which US state did you find i?. That would be helpful to know when asking for our help. Lanceolate shaped points can often be very difficult to ID from photos. They were made from Paleo down to the time of European contact. I know of no type called Paleo knife but if you mean a knife of Paleo age then I would say it is not and IMO neither is it a Clovis preform.Tell us where you found it and I might be able to suggest some possibilities.

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        • #5
          It was found in what is called the river bed area a very ancient river long since dryed up haskett point's have been found in the area.its in the tate of utah.and i found it 37 years ago.
          Utah

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          • sailorjoe
            sailorjoe commented
            Editing a comment
            It was found a very long distance from my old hunting grounds and sorry to say that I can be of little help. As you know some types, especially some of the older types, are often found over a huge area and Clovis is an example of that. Because of the fine edgework, I believe it was finished to its final form and not a Clovis. It has more of an Archaic look about it to me. There is point called Archaic knife that is more of a period style than a true type that is found in your area that your point somewhat resembles except that your point is flattened in x-section as are Clovis points and the Archaic Knife points are supposedly elliptical in x-section.. You may want to check out the website projectilepoints.net and see what you think but because of the difference in x-section shape I don't think it is that. But maybe the old folks made flattened blade knifes during the Archaic period as well. But as I said in my first reply I have no experience with types that may be specific to your general area.Hope someone else can be more helpful.

        • #6
          The NP section of Overstreet guide has a section that shows a Paleo Knife. Your fine artifact I think probably fits more into an Archaic time frame. I lean more towards a Triangular’ Knife than a Clovis or paleo Preform’. Here’s a Pic of my Obsidian Knife in its Frame. It too came from an area of Paleo Artifacts. Found in late 60’s- South Eastern Oregon. Is it a Paleo Knife? Well it’s old. Don’t know if it would classify as such. One thing that strikes me is how the ‘N plains’ section of Overstreet’ has more Paleo forms than all other regions.

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        • #7
          Wow, that one sure is thin, looks like nice material too...beautiful piece.
          San Luis Valley, southern Colorado

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          • Rio Del Norte
            Rio Del Norte commented
            Editing a comment
            my avatar has a good chance of being a Clovis preform but as the archaeologist told me "if it wasn't found in a proven strata you can't be sure"

        • #8
          I did have the late terry baxter of western artifacts look at it via email his opinion was paleo but again hard to tell over internet pictures.from the studying I've done there are far more paleo sites east of the Rockies to my knowledge only 3 or 4 documented clovis sites in utah.
          Utah

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          • #9
            Rio del norte. I agree with the strata point.
            Utah

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            • Rio Del Norte
              Rio Del Norte commented
              Editing a comment
              Check out the net for "Ultrathin Folsom" artifacts...that'll get your heart rate up...LOL

          • #10
            Thanks for your input guys it's interesting to get many opions from such a knowledgeable group of people.
            Utah

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            • #11
              I think we can all agree it’s an Early Plains Knife form. I think most would agree it’s not a Clovis in the making! There’s a lot of Paleo variants in the NP region. Here’s a couple forms similar for the type and region. When you read the description of the ‘Browns Valley’ it says it can be found with a concave and also Straight Base. There’s also a ‘Archaic Triangle’ Type in the NP section though yours is Larger/more Knife size. As stated earlier in this post. When it comes to Artifacts like this. Archeologists would say. If it wasn’t excavated and documented with Other Paleo Artifacts it’s difficult to say! Either way. Thanks for Sharing it! This is what’s so great about this forum. Ya all stay safe out there 🇺🇸
              Last edited by Sage hen jack; 11-01-2019, 12:19 PM.

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              • sailorjoe
                sailorjoe commented
                Editing a comment
                Hi SHJ: It would closely fit the Browns Valley except for the flaking technique.This point appears to have random flaking while the BV has collateral or transverse oblique. HST, there are other point styles that are usually one way but sometimes the other. As per example, Clovis is usually random but sometimes can be transverse. This point could be a similar situation.Never saw or held a BV so I'm way out of my direst knowledge. I would say it would be more likely to be a BV than the Archaic knife due to the cross sectional form. In my experience point types are more true to cross sectional form than to flaking style.. But other folks may have a different experience. Not a Clovis but likely Early Archaic. Anyhow that's my best guess for now.

            • #12
              Agreed Sailor Joe. My first impression-Transitional Paleo or Early Archaic Knife. Could go either way to be honest. It’s very thin and sweet. Bet it would glow translucent held up to the Sun of light source
              Last edited by Sage hen jack; 11-02-2019, 06:08 PM.

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              • #13
                Beautifully flaked! Wonderful material t'boot.
                "The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. Lee

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                • #14
                  I enjoy listening to y’alls’ conversations about Clovis because Topper right across river from me, and I actually know what the “proven strata” reference means. I can’t contribute to conversation, but I can sure hold my own eavesdropping!
                  Digging in GA, ‘bout a mile from the Savannah River

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