Cleaning day never ends!

[ChrisM]

I've been slowly going through my containers that I have here with me, cleaning, and photographing pieces to hopefully open a shop here at some point. I came across these beauties and thought I would share! Oh, and I couldn't help but throw in a couple of pretty rocks. Lol

[Kyflintguy]

I'm seeing some larger natural flakes of material with Creek chatter and water polished edges but not artifacts. The flatter flake resembles edge work but I'm not completely convinced yet... Store? To sell what? I haven't seen you post any artifact with actual monetary value yet? It occurs to me that your ability to discern artifact from natural Stone is yet to be developed. If you listed these items I would be surprised if they ever sold for any amount as artifacts. I say hang out learn some more then re evaluate your stuff you've been bringing home.

[ChrisM]

Interesting. Thank you for your opinion! I'm on here every day looking at everyone's posts and trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible.

[ChrisM]

You know, after sitting here and thinking about what was said, feeling SO discouraged and just about in tears, I remembered how strong and confident I really am. Quick question. Have you ever heard of Big Eddy located in Cedar County Missouri on the Sac River? If not, here is a link to Missouri State Center for Archeological Research that explains the site. https://www.missouristate.edu/car/bigEddy.htm. I used to live in Greene County Missouri about 30 minutes from Stockton lake. One of my main picking grounds was a water system that fed into the Sac River, upstream from Stockton Lake. I have spent hours upon hours researching paleolithic artifacts, their techniques of how they created their tools, what markings to look for, how to identify them, and the list goes on. I know that what I have found has been worked by man. The ergonomics, the microflaking, and the patina that is on most if not all of the pieces that I have is undeniable. I apologize that not all of my pieces fit into the "perfect arrowhead" category. And I apologize that you are not able to see past that. I have often read threads and posts of people bashing others, making them sound so stupid and beneath them that it makes my heart ache. And makes me feel sorry for the people bashing the others that they have such a narrow mind that they can't see the art created by our primitive ancestors. That they can't see that not every single piece that our ancestors had made were the refined pretty arrowheads that you guys hold on such a high pedistool. Why aren't the tools and pieces that our ancestors used UK n their daily lives held to the same reverence? After all, it's what they used on a regular daily basis to LIVE. To actually live and aid them in their daily lives. How can that not be just as or more important than arrowheads or spear points?? Through all of my research, I have seen piece after piece that looks to be the same shape of many pieces that I have. That are supposedly "authenticated". That are not the refined arrowheads that you so revear but are still classified as arrowheads. Not just from other sales pages, but from research papers published and available on many universities websites. And how can you sit there and be so arrogant as to say that the pieces that I had posted are a result of creek chatter without even asking for further photos or evidence first? I strongly feel that our ancestors lived lives just like we did. They made art for arts sake, had a family structure where they loved and expressed themselves just like we do today. But they did it with stones, rocks, and whatever materials they could find. Some were better at creating tools, arrowheads and art than others and it doesn't all just fit into a nice neat little category that you try to fit it in. I'm probably going to be banned for this post, but at this point I really dont care. You want to ban me, then ban me. And if you do, it only validates that people have a closed minds on here and it's truly a sad day. Oh yeah, by the way, one of the pieces that I had posted was not found in a creek and was never near a creek. It was from an area of my pasture that I had excavated by hand because of the sheer amounts of flakes found at the surface. So how can that be chalked up to creek chatter??

[Kyflintguy]

Just not seeing any deliberate modifications to those items. Often utilized flakes show very little in terms of deliberate flaking thats why I left some hope for the thinner flake. The others are clearly not modified from the photos nor do they show being utilized. I agree every item we find big or small, crude or G10 has informational value, I was referring to monetary value wich is a different thing altogether. I said that because in your introductory post you acknowledged selling and here you acknowledged cleaning these items to maybe eventually sell.
Many folks come here and especially so from areas were chert is abundant claiming everything that looks useful is a tool. If you don't believe me check out the rocks mistaken as artifacts section. The problem is not everything that looks ergonomic or fits the hand well is an artifact, and someone who perpetuates that idea only creates confusion in others who are beginners. It's not about being closed minded it's about keeping misinformation from being spread.

[Kyflintguy]

I've been here dozens of times before with new very imaginative members, take the advice how you will doesn't matter to me but the best route imo would be to listen and learn and as you do you will see that you've been quite imaginative as far as discerning tools go. Your Avatar and other post are telling to that end. I see you have found some stuff that are artifacts but you will begin to descriminate more of the definitely nots from the maybes, and actual descernable artifacts as you learn. Sorry for being brash about what I'm seeing, hopefully you can keep learning and growing as a collector here along with us.

[ChrisM]

We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. I believe that both items (except for the two pieces of mozarkite/chert that I had included because of their amazing color) have been worked on all edges. I have recently been in contact with Missouri State Center of Archeological Research to recieve their opinion on the pieces that I have found compared to the pieces that they have found at the Big Eddy site. I'll keep ya posted on their opinion on weather or not my pieces are just just creek chatter. 🤣

[ChrisM]

BTW, I've read some of the threads on "rocks mistaken for artifacts" section, and that's the exact bashing that I was speaking of. I personally do not want to read anymore of those threads because of the hateful nature of them.

[oldrocks2]

The bashing you see on "rocks mistaken for artifacts" isn't bashing, just long time collectors that run into this all the time and are trying to educate new collectors. I see no flaking or modification on your pieces that remotely look like tools. Have included a photo of a piece of flint that has been modified into a tool. In this case a knife,spokshave. Obvious flaking and modification.

[ChrisM]

I would like to bring your attention to a recent thread titled " Facebook page of a bunch of folks suffering Pareidolia"

i think i had also read one about an Ebay listing that had the same tone as this one, if not a bit worse.

Just saying. the comments were not kind and or educational.

[utilized flake]

When members try to educate newer members, and when they don't receive an answer that they like...it usually makes members agitated. Instead of lashing out ...a lot of people choose to use humor as do I! But hateful? No I don't think so. It looks as though you've found some flakes maybe tools, and don't get me wrong I love flake tools, but seldom would anyone want to buy my flakes that I bring home from hunts! As far as the post you mention... there are sellers on eBay that offer rocks for sale with silly price tags, and accompanied misinformation that makes most, if not all of us in pursuit of knowledge CRAZY. We deal with facts and have to remove subjectivity from things which can be hard. I see you posted some points as well. Take a couple of close ups and post in the questions section, and you will be surprised at the response that you'll get!!! Anywhoo cheers...flake

[smbore]

Brother.🙄