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A Cross of Thorns

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  • A Cross of Thorns

    To those of us who attended elementary school in California, We were LIED TO regarding the Spanish Missions & the Indigenous peoples of California. we were taught in 4th grade that the Spanish Friars & the Indians got along great at the Missions, that they lived together in peace & harmony. That was nothing but LIES. The Missions were Concentration camps in which the Indians were kept as slaves and treated terribly, Forced to work long days for no pay with daily whippings and punishment. they were feed starvation amounts of food, they were not taught Spanish or any useful skills, they were simply kept as Slaves by the Friars. the death rates in the Missions were very high, always higher then birth rates. and this went on for almost 65 years.... This is a terrible history we were kept blind to
    This great book that exposes the Terrible Truth about the Spanish Missions here in California.. you'll never look at any of the Missions again and think how great they are with the knowledge they were really nothing more then Death camps for over 100,000 Indigenous People of California..

    I just finished reading it and cannot recommend it enough to learn the terrible truth about the California Missions...



    \"..Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride..\" ~~ Hunter S. Thompson

  • #2
    So what's new? Pretty much the same old story all over the world. The royalty of Spain were in league with the Church to spread the "truth" to all the conquered peoples. At the same time the Inquisition was making it really tough on the heretics and "non-believers" back in the old home country. Nothing new at all. As Sonny and Cher said, "the beat goes on". C'est la vie.

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    • #3
      The boarding school experience in the United States pretty much had the aim of erasing native culture:

      http://www.nrcprograms.org/site/Page...oardingschools

      And in Canada, the situation was just as dismal:

      Read the latest breaking news in Canada and the rest of the world. We bring all of today's top headlines and stories to your fingertips.
      Last edited by CMD; 09-08-2015, 07:41 AM.
      Rhode Island

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      • #4
        What more can you expect when it is the conquers who write the history books.
        Now a days the truth is harder to hide but the atrocities still happen.

        Bruce
        In life there are losers and finders. Which one are you?

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        • #5
          Nonetheless, surprising or not, thanks for the reading recommendation. It's really not as if all this is that common a brand of knowledge. I'm sure most Americans are in fact clueless about the Spanish missions in California and elsewhere in the Southwest.

          The Pueblo people eventually had enough of Spanish priests:

          From 1598, Spanish established New Mexico as a Franciscan enclave dedicated to converting the region's Natives to Christianity, leading to the Pueblo revolt


          "Before long, a well-coordinated effort of several pueblo villages was established in August, 1680. Throughout the upper Rio Grande basin north of El Paso to Taos, the Tewa, Tiwa, Hopi, Zuni and other Keresan-speaking pueblos, and even the non-pueblo Apaches, planned to simultaneously rise up against the Spanish.

          The attack was planned for August 11, 1680, but, the Spaniards learned of the revolt after capturing two Tesuque Pueblo youths who were carrying messages to the pueblos. Popé then ordered the execution of the plot on August 10, before the uprising could be put down. The intent was to kill the missionaries, destroy the pueblo churches, and to kill any settlers who refused to leave their lands.

          On August 10, 1680, the attack was commenced by the Taos, Picuri, and Tewa Indians in their respective pueblos. The warriors killed 21 of the province's 40 Franciscans, and another 380 Spaniards, including men, women, and children. The Spaniards who were able to escape fled to Santa Fe and to the Isleta Pueblo, one of the few pueblos that did not participate in the rebellion. Popé's warriors, armed with Spanish weapons, then besieged Santa Fe, surrounding the city and cutting off its water supply. New Mexico Governor Antonio de Otermín, barricaded in the Governor’s Palace, soon called for a general retreat and on August 21st, the remaining 3,000 Spanish settlers streamed out of the capital city and headed for El Paso, Texas. Believing themselves the only survivors, the refugees at the Isleta Pueblo, also left for El Paso in September. In the meantime, the pueblo people destroyed most of the homes and buildings of the Spanish."
          Last edited by CMD; 09-08-2015, 09:26 AM.
          Rhode Island

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          • #6
            well Folks, Yes WE would know about this and it would not surprise Us, But as CMD correctly stated General Public doesn't know anything about this. I talk with folks locally (I live near Los Angeles) and almost everyone who went to school here in California thinks everything was fine & dandy in the Missions, because that's the BS we all were taught in 4th. grade. I knew about about a good amount of the problems, but this book exposed even more of the atrocities committed in the Missions. So While folks like us, who study the Indigenous Cultures of North America would know about what really went on in the Missions, plenty of folks have no clue and if this book can enlighten them, so much the better...
            \"..Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride..\" ~~ Hunter S. Thompson

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            • #7
              Actually, Flyjunkie, I'm sure there's a whole lot I don't know about the mission period in California's history. And growing up on American history, it did seem like a cool chapter. Which California capitalized on as far as tourism is concerned. Visit all the missions. Life in 18th century California. And I attended Catholic school through 7th grade. So you can bet the nuns didn't have anything bad to say about that history at all. Of course, it was something they would have been in the dark over as well as their students. A long time ago now. But I remember thinking that was a cool period. It was the age of Zorro! Zorro brought that period to TV for awhile.
              Rhode Island

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              • #8
                How in the world this horrific monster could be elevated, to sainthood no less, is beyond me. What an absolute disgrace to canonize this monster today....

                http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/23/opinio...erra-no-saint/

                Junipero Serra brutally converted Native Americans to Christianity and wiped out entire cultures, languages and villages in the process
                Rhode Island

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                • #9
                  The whole process of sainthood (beatification and canonization) doesn't have much to do with a facebook popularity contest, or how history views their actions in life (aka POV or point of view.) Lots of saints did some pretty unspeakable things from our POV, then again so did historical figures from almost any other religion or political spectrum. Junipero Serra was elevated to saint because of miracles attributed to him after he died. A significant number of Catholics in California, Nevada, and Arizona pray and ask him for help when they are sick or desperate, and he is religiously significant to a couple million people there. I'm not intending to start a discussion on the veneration of saints miracles in the the Catholic faith, if you believe in it, cool, if you don't, it won't be something that is solved here. I'm just suggesting that saint hood isn't as simple as a like button, and for the vocal minority against it, there is a silent majority (of catholics) who probably support it.

                  Here are two examples of people who are widely admired in our culture, who are arguably "horrific monsters" from another POV.

                  Harry Truman, I have nothing but respect for him as a man & as president. He's often ranked just below the best of the best by our historians and scholars. That said, he is widely regarded in Japan as the person who authorized the two nuclear bombs which ultimately killed north of 200,000 civilians. Their point of view is that they attacked a military base in Hawaii, during a time of war, killed very few civilians, and it was a legitimate military target. He directly authorized punitive attacks against a civilization, and used the moment to establish US supremacy.

                  Thomas Jefferson, again I'm very impressed by him. He owned a boat load of slaves. He bought and sold children. Slaves were beaten under his care. He had slaves castrated (he wrote about the benefits and put forth a law proposing castration as a punishment for a range of crimes.) He fathered a child with a slave under what legally cannot be considered a consensual relationship. The slave could have been as young as 14 when he initiated a physical relationship with her, so he was a pedophile under today's standards. Should we pull him off our money? Should we knock down his memorial? Should we disregard the very foundation of our country because of some absolutely heinous things that he did during his life that were completely acceptable at the the time?
                  Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, born and raised a Roman Catholic, so I'm aware of the requirement of miracles where canonization is concerned. And I really don't know a thing about this guy otherwise. In general, I have no respect for missionary work anyway, so I'm bound to be biased against any and all such efforts. Until Flyjunkie brought this book up, I hadn't given much thought to the brutality at the heart of the California missions. But, I'd be hard pressed to find anything wrong with "love your neighbor as yourself". Beyond that, I'll shut up or I'll just make a lot of enemies for no reason.
                    Rhode Island

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                    • #11
                      I got to thinking about this while out for our walk today, and realized my bias is partly the result of 7 years of Parochial school with one or two nuns that could have easily been fitted for straight jackets, lol. Not good, not good at all. But it was also a more disciplined environment then public schools decades ago, though.
                      Rhode Island

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                      • #12
                        CMD, sorry, that came out with a more argumentative tone than I intended. The fingers don't always do a good job translating what I'm thinking.
                        Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by clovisoid View Post
                          CMD, sorry, that came out with a more argumentative tone than I intended. The fingers don't always do a good job translating what I'm thinking.
                          Oh, heck no. That's me. Always on the verge of "impassioned", lol. I thought a lot about my Parochial school experience last night. This was the 1950's. They certainly were not mission schools, but talk about discipline. Every morning, 5 days a week, school began with a 4 mile round trip walk to Mass and back. I remember saying the rosary silently every step of the way. And I remember two nuns(sisters) in particular. One warm and kind, I think she somehow knew I would grow up to doubt my faith, and one who was completely off the wall and truly in serious need of psychiatric intervention. Boys will be boys, and that particular sister only had trouble with us boys. When she flipped out, which we boys could trigger at will, well, that's all we needed to see to encourage us, lol. What do kids know, I hope she found peace eventually.

                          Anyway, don't feel that way, it's me, not you, as George Costanza might say......

                          I also think you hit the nail on the head pointing out the mixed bag of perspectives afforded by a close look at people occupying important places in history. Excellent points!
                          Last edited by CMD; 09-25-2015, 07:16 AM.
                          Rhode Island

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