Hardaway?

[gregszybala]

Todays find.
I'm leaning towards Hardaway even though rare for here but possibly not the first I have found here. May be St. Albans
What's your thoughts?

[2ndoldman]

You are asking the wrong member for an identification if you were looking for my input.
However I can still drool over it.

[searchinghawk]

my thought is that its a hardaway,, i found a hardaway in central mass and just this weekend found a dalton variant in same area of central massachusetts,, have a late paleo varney point from where i found the dalton this weekend

[p kurt]

Looks like a good match to me, good find. You have had a good weekend

[Sugaree]

It certainly has a Hardaway look. Nice find!

[chase]

Nope I am not going to endorse Hardaway!!!!! lol Ima going with St Albans
Nice find!!!

[SDhunter]

Your on a roll Greg. Nice little point.

[sailorjoe]

Hi Greg. Dandy little real old dart point you got there. My thoughts as to to the type. I think it is a Hardaway. Maybe rare but that doesn't count as a strike against that call. For example, I had 3 Calf Creek points in my collection from north Alabama and the Cambron & Hulse point type book doesn't include them at all. I can give other such examples.

[rockdigger]

Can i see these Alabama Calf Creeks? Thems my favorite.

[Kyflintguy]

Nice little side notch Greg! I don't think you can put me on the Hardaway wagon. Id be more inclined to go with another type like Mackorkle or Big Sandy Contracted base... A nice early archaic artifact any way you look at it.

[sailorjoe]

Hi Greg. Regarding the type. Hardways, Greenbriers and other such related points are flattened in cross section as your point appears to be. Big Sandys of whatever base shape are nearly always biconvex/ellipitical in cross section. The contracted base BS point was first IDed by Cambrom from the Cave Springs dig in 1969 or 70 ( don't remember the exact year). . He used at least two of the contracted base points that I found in that sanctioned dig from points that I personally found in the dig as I was one of the crew members on that excavation. The results were first published in the Journal of Alabama Archeology. Additionally, he named at least one new type (the Cave Springs) from that dig. I could yak on and on about the Cave Springs site as I lived no more than a mile from there for several years but I guess that I have yakked enough. If I had the point in hand then I could be more certain but being as I don't then I have much less than 100% confidence in my call. Chase's suggestion as St. Albans may be correct. I don't think I ever handled one of those.

[gregszybala]

Thanks all for the input.
An odd point for this area whatever it is. It is not the typical bifurcate you would expect to find for this area. It is flattened in cross section. and worked much like a Hardaway or Hemphill.
Maybe a St. Albans. It could be a Hemphill, a rather small one but everything about it fits.

[chase]

Greg, what ever you call it it is a sweet point. Here is the point that I thought was a Hardaway and told no.

[gregszybala]

Very similar, lobes not as pronounced.

[sailorjoe]

Hi Greg, Chase, Josh, et. al.: Newsflash!! Extra, extra, read all about it. LOL Sailorjoe makes mistake. Apparently, my memory ain't what it used to be. After reviewing your and Chase's pics I decided to read again the description for Hardaways and Greenbriers as written by Cambron in the Handbook of Alabama Archaeology. While Greenbriers are usually flattened, the Hardaway is described as being biconvex in cross section and not flattened as I stated. Your point is shallowly side notched, with a bi-lobed, incurvate base that appears to be ground at the base and the halfting area which is a Hardaway character but a flattened cross section is a St. Albans character. So.... does your point exhibit grinding and is it flattened or bi-convex? If it is biconvex on one side and flat on the other and ground then it still may be a Hardaway. Although you show us both sides, I can't be real certain if it is flat or not or if it is ground. Another trait for the Hardway given by Cambron is that they may be finely serrated as yours appears to be. As far as the dandy little point that Chase is showing us---I think your point could be a St. Albans as he suggested because yours was found well within the area where the St. Albans is supposed to be distributed but outside the area where Hardaways are typically found and also, as I said before St. Albans are typically flattened. Hardaways are now considered to be Trans Paleo while St. Albans are considered early Archaic. Both very old for sure.

[Hoss]

Wow Joe thank you that is great information. Greg Chase love those points. Both are early dart tips in my opinion but as to type I do not know.

[Kyflintguy]

I can see the St. Albans type here. I had to research that type because I wasnt familiar with it. My first thought of Mackorkle didn't fit as well as the closely related St. Albans does. Learning something new all the time!