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Heartbreaker....not sure of type?

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  • Heartbreaker....not sure of type?

    Found today....NW Tn.....I'm not sure of point type....damage to the ears and missing point....I'm thinking wheeler recurvate but could be totally off....any other thoughts...hopefully there is enough of base left for someone to id. Click image for larger version

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    Benny / Western Highland Rim / Tennessee

  • #2
    Beaver Lake possibly. The good ones are always broken where I look. Dang it’s hot again
    NW Georgia,

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    • #3
      Yes its hot.....we need some rain. Thanks for the input surface....by the way...I got some new flops yesterday...3 dollars at kohl's....glad i waited now
      Benny / Western Highland Rim / Tennessee

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      • SurfaceHunter
        SurfaceHunter commented
        Editing a comment
        Maybe I will have to look tomorrow mine are getting worn flat haven’t gotten any new ones yet

    • #4
      Holly smokes that is a super find! Looks Trans Paleo to me with an outside chance of Paleo but I'm not thinking Beaver Lake or any of the Wheeler types. The reason being is those 2 as a rule are generally biconvex in cross section whereas this point looks pretty flat to me. I'm going to have to study that one a bit before I offer an opinion as to type. Are the base and the lower side edges ground smooth to the touch? And is the base, except for the ears all there. In other words do you see any evidence of a break at the base? I also would be interested in knowing what type of site did you find it on and have you found other Trans Paleo or Early Archaic points on it?

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      • sailorjoe
        sailorjoe commented
        Editing a comment
        Your pics are good. Except if I could see a close up of the base and looking straight down at the base and in excellent focus then that might help me a little to form an opinion. So far, here is what I know about it(1) It looks to be approx.1 3/4 inches long after the tip was lost, so perhaps 0.25 to 0.5 inch, longer before being broken. (2) it appears to be flat in x-section,(3) the sides are straight, (4) the lower edges are ground and the base is slightly ground.(5) the ears appear to be slightly broken at the tips, (6) it appears to have been made for the most part by random flaking, (7) the size and shape indicates its probable use as a dart point. Given all that, it more closely resembles an unfluted Clovis than anything else. There is a passing resemblance to a Quad but Quads usually have more pronounced, somewhat flaring ears.But, having said all that, I'm not able now to say that a Clovis is what it is. I've already said what I think it's not but that ain't much help.

      • sailorjoe
        sailorjoe commented
        Editing a comment
        Looks like a mult component site. How far is it to the closest site for people to get water and is it a spring,a creek or a large river? The Mulberry Creek is Mid to late Archaic.If found in an agricultural field or what use to be one then the lithics can get pretty jumbled up after a couple of hundred years of farming and erosion.

      • Benji
        Benji commented
        Editing a comment
        The field used to be farmed and now made into housing development.....there is a couple ponds on the site but not sure if those are man made....the site is near several creeks...maybe more years ago but cumberland river is maybe 5 - 10 miles away.....I've posted more pics of the base

    • #5
      First off, I'm jealous - I spent all day in a creek next to a known Archaic camp, and found nothing.

      Secondly, that is a great find! Broken or not, Paleo is hard to come by!

      Thirdly, I think Surface Hunter may be right. Beaver Lake, or something close to it.
      "The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. Lee

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      • sailorjoe
        sailorjoe commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi KP, the only thing real close to a Beaver Lake is a Cumberland. They are sometimes called unfluted Cumberlands. Also, the Beaver Lake and Cumberlands have somewhat of an excurvate edge giving the appearance of a waist near the base.

    • #6
      nice find would have been a smoker if whole.
      Wyoming

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      • #7
        I’m with Joe. My first thought was Clovis, despite the lack of fluting. Sure looks Paleo to me. Durn!
        Child of the tides

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        • Jethro355
          Jethro355 commented
          Editing a comment
          I’m with you and Joe...very clovisoid.

          Super find.

          Heartbreaker? Yeah, a little, but man....😮

      • #8
        The peanut’s comment from today’s gallery is “what’s-in-a-name? ...Coz, whatever that rose is sho’ smells sweet!”

        And, just think no one could’ve appreciated whatever it is, if you had not saved it from the destruction of the construction!
        Last edited by Cecilia; 09-22-2019, 05:53 PM.
        Digging in GA, ‘bout a mile from the Savannah River

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        • Benji
          Benji commented
          Editing a comment
          True that cecilia

      • #9
        Here are more pics Click image for larger version

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        Attached Files
        Benny / Western Highland Rim / Tennessee

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        • #10
          Top view of base Click image for larger version

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          Benny / Western Highland Rim / Tennessee

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          • #11
            My guess would be Quad, the ears look damaged imo. But I'm just imagining that the width of the ears or auricles that remain would have been indicative of the wider squared ears like we see with the Quad type. A nice trans/Paleo score for sure! Thanks for sharing!
            Josh (Ky/Tn collector)

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            • Cecilia
              Cecilia commented
              Editing a comment
              Wow. When y’all start with the Type-Talk, I feel like special-ed kindergartener who accidentally got put in 6th grade advanced calculus for gifted students.

          • #12
            Quad is something I didn't think about.
            "The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. Lee

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            • #13
              My first thought was quad but then I started thinking maybe Clovis! That is an awesome Find regardless what it’s technically called! Congrats man!
              SE ARKANSAS

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              • #14
                Hi Benji, me again. That last group of photos are outstanding! A much better look at the base and the way the ears/auricles may have flared out more. Because of those excellent photos I think the point is most likely a Quad. And KFG/Josh who is a good typologist on points from your area thinks that it also may be one. You are very fortunate. Quads are very rare. Most people from the geographical area where they are found may have thousands of points but no Quads. Broken points are often called heartbrakers but I'd rather have one heartbreaker like that than 200 field grade woodland points. I'm glad that I've had the time today to follow this thread and I appreciate your efforts at trying to solve this puzzle.

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                • #15
                  Apparently, consensus is (🥁🥁🥁).......QUAD!! Everybody is so excited that guess I’ll just have to go read all about them!
                  I just knew it was old and beautiful and somebody sat and worked on it until edges just so..., but I do hate being at party and not knowing Guest of Honor!
                  Digging in GA, ‘bout a mile from the Savannah River

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