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I have enjoyed the few shares that I posted & value what I have learned from the many expert members , but feel this is no longer a productive site to spend my time & effort on. Thanks , hiddenvalley ...
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You were welcome. Keep looking down.Professor Shellman
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Confused....Lubbock County TxComment
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Seriously? Theres nothing to "not like" hereLast edited by redrocks; 09-18-2019, 01:04 PM.SW ConnecticutComment
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Admittedly the forums can be a tough place for those still in their infancy in terms of artifact hunting and identification. When the only modicum of communication afforded to us is text, things such as tone and expression are often lost. This leaves it to the individual to interpret one's tone on their own. I was fortunate that social media didn't exist when I first started hunting and I had a very experienced "hunting buddy" to help guide me along. It didn't hurt that my neighbor was in two volumes of the Whose Who books way back in the day. He was also very gracious with his time and guidance. Some people are certainly thicker skinned than others, but we shouldn't discount the feelings of people with "softer" sensibilities. There have been times that I have even gotten frustrated by posts and I like to think I possess infinite patience. I can assure you for every Hiddenvalley who at least had the courage to say goodbye, there are likely a lot of others who leave these forums due to frustration over the toxicity (both real and perceived). If anything, maybe this is a good opportunity for everyone to remember that there was once a time that they knew virtually nothing about artifacts and asked a lot of "dumb" questions too. Anyhow, that's just my unbiased (and unsolicited I might add) thoughts on the matter.Comment
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This thread may help explain Hiddenvalley's decision. Especially comment #17, on page 2. I missed this entirely at the time. Of all the comments, and, as a moderator, I can see some of the deleted comments, because not all were "permanently" deleted, I was especially turned off by the apparent attitude on the part of one poster that if an artifact is anything too worn, or just not "spectacular"(my word in this instance, but that was the thrust), then people should not be saying things like "nice find". This forum is not solely for people to post G10 artifacts. Most of us do not find G10 artifacts. Many of my points are what I call "erased" points, because the water wear removes almost all, even all, the flaking. They are still artifacts. I think things got a bit out of hand at the linked thread below, but that attitude I'm describing just now was spoken. I don't like it one bit. And neither did Hiddenvalley. And he spoke his mind regarding that attitude:
https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/...er-point-knife
edit: just realized one poster from that thread was banned by Hoss. And a good decision it was. Sorry to see Hiddenvalley leave. Did not get to know him, but I know all about the drawbacks of social media, and the resultant coarsening of civil conversation.Last edited by CMD; 09-18-2019, 03:47 PM.Rhode IslandComment
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Okie's gone. Life goes on but it's not the same anymore in Hidden Valley. Unfortunate. Hoss was on it right away.
Professor Shellman
Tampa BayComment
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We are assuming that is why this person left but it could be numerous other reasons.Searching the fields of NW Indiana and SW MichiganComment
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There is no telling what it was. I am so sorry to see him go.TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-PostComment
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What's happening around here? I don't remember seeing anyone banned, or leaving last year...what happened this year? Good grief."The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. LeeComment
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I for one feel bad about hidden valley leaving, maybe I should have said that I would have brought the artifact home in my reply. Many of us have rock gardens of things that we find that don't make it into our "perverbial" artifact rooms. I also feel bad about using sarcastic humor when it comes to people who have posted artistic rocks... but after using a filter on a search on a selling/buying site, and viewing people that are attempting to sell rocks that are full of misinformation for thousands of dollars. I don't only shake my head, I get upset because misinformation and $$$ signs equals more people thinking they can hit it rich. From what I can tell, most of us here think that the value is in the pursuit of knowledge!
The member being banned incident was unfortunate because of the confrontation. My childhood was filled with many years of being bullied, and have since made it a mission to stop people from bullying others.
Lastly I would like to extend a thank you to Hoss for being our ambassador. You sir are a scholarly gentleman!
North CarolinaComment
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Personally.... I don't believe I would have seen at least 2 of them as artifacts and brought them home myself. I play by the "If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything" moto unless you specifically ask me my opinion on something.
Now I didn't see where the original poster even asked for opinions. He was just happy to show off some items that he found and was proud of which is awesome.... Everyone's idea of a treasure or something worth keeping is very different and should be applauded, while those that feel that their negativity of what they think is nothing should be free for all to hear should just keep it zipped. I'm a member of many forums and I see many posts like "Check out my new wheels" "Just got the car or bike painted" and no matter how damn fugly and jacked I think it looks I keep it to myself.
Very unfortunate that someone felt it necessary to leave the forums because of such behavior.
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The scraper was likely only a flake. The "bipoint" was very clearly, absolutely, a heavily worn biface. That's the kind of condition that people who hunt turbulent tidal zones for artifacts find all the time. One soon learns to recognize such things. I guess some of my self-described "erased points" might be rejected immediately by some, but perhaps people just don't want to offer the opinion "that is not an artifact". I have seen other things rejected because people are simply not familiar with the very poor quality lithic involved. Poor lithics like argillaceous slate or argillaceous shale(Lockatong Argillite). But folks that are familiar with various poor lithics in areas where chert is not commonly used are experienced with finding such artifacts. The third item in that thread was a broken knife by the looks of it. I agree we don't know why Hiddenvalley left, but in going through his recent posts, that particular thread, and his comment stood out....Rhode IslandComment
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It was my post that seems to have triggered all of this.
I had hoped that I could stay out of it, which is why I chose not to engage in any of the aggro with Okie1 (beyond my initial reply to his post).
Personally, negative comments about my finds don't bother me. Often I learn something.
But I do think when negativity strays off topic or becomes focused personally it can be very toxic to a forum community so I'm perfectly comfortable with the moderators doing what they need to to keep things sweet.
They chose to ban Okie1, perhaps he had previous history or maybe they felt his tone crossed the line.
Their prerogative and they do a great job, so this place is a rare and civilized oasis where can people share and learn.
No politics. No fighting. No trolling. Just lovely Native American artifacts and other interesting things.
There are some natural tensions; novices will irritate the experienced (and vice versa), abrasive characters exist everywhere, the ambiguity of tone and misinterpretation.
So we ought to be gentle, but also not too thin-skinned.
I'm sorry that Hiddenvalley felt unwelcome or disrespected and chose to leave.
He defended my post and I'm grateful for that, as I am to the others who did the same.
CaliforniaComment
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Originally posted by CMD View Post
Everything you say is true.
But I'm a stubborn fool, so please indulge me...
Please take a fresh look at this item.
Flakes aren't worked on both sides ever are they?
Top side is kind of dome shaped.
You can see a little rind* at the apex.
The flaking fans out toward the outward edge.
There is a handle/tail/receding stem.
Unlike most scrapers, the bottom is flaked to create a flat surface.
There are a least three, maybe four, distinct flakes removed in this process.
Again you can see a little rind (*not proper rind but longer exposed material).
Having drawn your attention to these details, if you still thinks it's debitage, I'll accept your opinion and chuck it in the appropriate box.
Just trying to learn here.
CaliforniaComment
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