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  • Curious about site locations...

    I may ramble a bit, but why is one hill-near-water loaded with debitage and another hill-near-water devoid of it?
    When looking at a fresh cutover, I try to imagine it as old growth hardwoods. Considering easy access to water. The paper company doesn't generally alter the terrain any and most two-tracks are along ridges and tops that may have been established ages ago. I'm inclined to believe that a certain degree of "flatness" may make one site preferable to another. And I can say that I've noticed a bit of proclivity t'wards saddles. There's 2 places I've found within .5 mile of each other along the same creek where they seem to have settled into a saddle in a coupla of instances. But not much more to just plain ol hilltops. The debitage loaded place in the main cutover I've been finding in is in a saddle, tho'. Looks to have been an established knapping area, but well picked over before I found it.
    Down in the river bottom a slight knoll may be the campsite of choice (bugless winter, mebbe?) But can't say as I really know where the water ran 1000's of years ago. I can't find much rhyme-nor-reason to it.
    It's just a bit confusing and I wondered if someone may be able to shed a lil light on their choices of campsites. I made a couple of labeled pics to see if that may help demonstrate what I'm asking about. But realize they may be next to useless without an overhead layout for reference. The pics are of the fresh cutover I'm currently exploring. LOTS of white quartz on the main ridge.
    Thanks for any help. d:^)
    Lexington to the Sortof Southernmost Uwharries of NC. Jake..

  • #2
    You did a lot to illustrate the situation. I use to do the same thing! On one side of a dirt road there was camp, the other side not. The only advice I can give you is to not let it get to you. I know it does not make sense. It is what it is... To keep pondering will not help you... I’m sorry to say I was confounded for many years about just your type of terrain situation.
    The only other advice I have is to keep stomping on the hot areas....JJ
    Lubbock County Tx

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    • #3
      Thanks for responding, JJ.
      No worries. It isn't really "bothering" me. Just curious about such things. If I had to guess at one time there may have been some small thing that made one site a better choice over the others in the area. Proper foliage, lack of large rocks on the ground, yadda, yadda. I have noticed they tend to avoid the areas where the slate and silt rock are present in abundance. As well as anywhere the white quartz is on the surface.
      And hey, I's be a-stompin still! Hehehe. Stompin an-a-flippin"! d;^)
      Lexington to the Sortof Southernmost Uwharries of NC. Jake..

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      • #4
        It does make you wonder and makes it hard to guess the odds of something being where you think. Soil conditions as well as what the sites flora conditions were like, type of trees, trees, no trees, grasses, edible plants. Sites with the tiniest of creeks, others right on the edge of the river or lake and others as far as a quarter mile from water. I have one 68 acre site where you are more likely to find point types from different time periods in different areas. Another site where the bulk of the waste flakes, chunks and cores are found on the south facing edge of a sandy knoll that runs north to south. I think the old ladies there said , I'm not stepping on this stuff everytime I come out of the wigwam, go over there and make your points!
        Searching the fields of Northwest Indiana and Southwestern Michigan

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        • #5
          It seems pretty random and JJ is right. Best ya can do is keep truckin an lookin. I think they sought high ground to get outta the damp air and bugs of the lowland. But that was prolly much less of a concern in winter. There's sites right in the crook of the Pee Dee and a large feeder creek as well as yer .25 mile away sites that are just as busy. Only difference being that the .25 mile away site has a seasonal spring fed creek running along it.

          ..I've got another new cutover that's a coupla thousand yards up in the hills from the Little River to the North of the property with no local small creeks. Finds are very sporadic up there. Mostly hunt loss I think and not much in the way of large areas of flakes.

          ..And yeah, I can hear Momma gettin on the men-folk for makin a big sharp mess near the hut for the kids to play in and get cut. Seems somebody told me a while back that the women did most of the knapping. Not sure about that. I know mine stays outta the reloading room. d;^)
          Lexington to the Sortof Southernmost Uwharries of NC. Jake..

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          • #6
            Could of been back when they were camping there all kinds of reasons like the bare hill might of been to overgrown with thorns or even snakes. Without knowing what it looked like back then it would be just a guess. The property I’m on right now has always produced all types of artifacts from all age groups but less than a mile away in another creek absolutely nothing. Why they liked one spot better than another I couldn’t tell you but both creeks here are loaded with natural flint and both empties into the river. But both creek properties are a little different the one with artifacts has more hills the other has hills but not as many. Interesting question
            NW Georgia

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            • Tam
              Tam commented
              Editing a comment
              Yeah that kills me one place loaded next nothing

          • #7
            I try to imagine what the sites may have looked like. Dunno if a "view" was desirable, but convenience def seems to be a strong deciding factor. Or just that the sites that were convenient were most used so there would naturally be more available to find.
            Imagining the area in old growth hardwoods instead of the "quick grow" paper company pines seems it was prolly a beautiful area with nice, commanding views of the surrounding flat lands. Especially in the fall/winter when the leaves were off.
            They just reworked and drug the roads in the new cutover near the big creek. Just waitin on a good rain'r'two ta get things uncovered. d:^)
            Lexington to the Sortof Southernmost Uwharries of NC. Jake..

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            • #8
              I've always wondered the same thing and it's drive me crazy over the past several years. One thing I have noticed (at least in my area) is they seemed to prefer a location that still gets adequate sun in the fall and winter. A lot of the time if the only decent mostly flat spot is on a north slope or there are considerably larger hills east or west they weren't there much. There might be a small hunting camp or kill progressing site but not a lot. Sometimes I'll go to "perfect" spot and find nothing but when I check back a few years later erosion has worked it's magic.

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              • #9
                Hi there HawgBonz,

                I have hunted all over the Uwharrie Mountains and I completely understand why the Indians would stay away from ridge tops or any other area with lots of exposed slate or quartz. Some of those places can be rough walking much less camping and if you want to find a snake mess around a bunch of that exposed slate. I’ve been on a few ridge tops that so much quartz on them that it seemed kind of magical. Maybe the Indians considered them to be sacred but who knows? That whole area has been logged over and over again and I think most of the state was washed out after the last Ice Age so don’t let it bother you. I don’t think the geologist even have a handle on everything that happened? It sounds like your on some really good ground do go for it and map it out as you go. In time maybe you can get a better handle on it.

                Have a good one!

                Von
                Last edited by Von; 11-19-2019, 09:14 PM.

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                • #10
                  Perhaps the sites that were used already had shelters on them or what was left of the shelters or stockades. Newcomers would find it easier to rebuild what was left of a shelter in a clearing than to start all over again even thought close by might have been a better site closer to the creek. just a thought.

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                  • #11
                    I have always knew hunters & gatherers camped and settled near water and hunters would leave to follow the herd and comeback i have proof of this found bison teeth and tools left behind and to make it shorter there has been a sign that a war happened here in my town found many types of points that are not familiar with the area and many peoples connected and branched off finding what i found is a remarkable achievement just for the fact water was there source of survival banks are the best places to find projectiles early or modern no later than 1700s here when they abandoned outside of Winston-Salem in north carolina
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Danny Hamel; 12-13-2019, 03:10 PM.

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                    • SurfaceHunter
                      SurfaceHunter commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Very interesting, when I looked at your creek photos I thought for a minute it was a creek I hunt but then I saw what you wrote. Thanks for the photos looks like a nice creek.

                  • #12
                    Hawgs I just saw this post . Even though I am in Georgia I have a very similar situation on a campsite . Those loggers after they cut those down and tickle it up for planting do a number on erosion . Richland Georgia actually has a mini Grand Canyon that happened from floods and over farming in the 1800’s .
                    So back to your place and where I am going here is I think it’s totally different now like you imagine then back 1000 years ago and then some . Slate and quartz holding the ground and dirt just washing off exposing it more .
                    From your diagram I think like my place they stay up high . You and I hunt lease property and everywhere I go the high look out places yield artifacts even if just chips . Better place to be right .
                    But here is what I am noticing . Especially this year one camp had such a wash out that it went from high ridge and flat on top to starting to look like a slanted roof for snow . The pitch is changing so much so I went down low and here I found an archaic base on a woodland camp Then way at the bottom a Clovis base . I think Mother Nature is doing the digging for me and this spring we are only going to the bottom to mid section to look what has been carved out . I feel these multi generational camps and work sites can be figured out by like you said old typography , then water wear etc .
                    your finding some great stuff so your lease is darn good in every way, deer and artifacts .
                    just wanted to share . I wish I had pics to show you so similar and I’ll take some next year.

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                    • #13
                      This might be a little off topic but your post made me think about it. When it comes to spots that are tough to understand, like somewhere that has very few flakes and is perfect, or somewhere near a site that seems to perfect to not be. I like to take a few good sized handful of flakes and set them on the hillsides, in the flat areas and in the tiny drainages/washes that run through the flatter areas. Then go back and check them after a month or two or a good rain storm and see what happened. I know this might sound crazy and seem like a lot but it can tell you a lot about the erosion in an area. This has worked well helping me predict wether an area might produce more or is just getting burried. Its also helped me determine if rain, melting snow wind or other weather conditions are better. I know sometimes I get off track and ramble but I can't help it so sorry for my rambling hopefully it didn't put anyone to sleep.

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