Research help

[Ashley1972]

My name is Ashley from Virginia. I’ve been metal detecting since 1995. The last few years I stumbled onto some nice Indian sites. I’m a bit jealous of all the great points and varied stone types, that come from surrounding states especially out west. Where I live in central Virginia it seems like white quartz was the main rock of choice. Around here I find tons of beautiful tools but not a lot of points. I feel lucky that there are quite a few vein and crystal quartz relics around. First of all, what is the best book for identifying the multitude of rock tools I find. There seems to be quite a few ID books on points but not so much on tools. Hopefully I will post some whatsit pictures of some of the more unusual relics I’ve found. I need major help id’ing these stone tools. I also have some questions I’d like to ask. Thanks

[JoshinMO]

Welcome to The Forum Ashley! Out of My area for Me to know what exactly to suggest Me being mainly to My Area's Stuff but Archaeological Journal's and Hothem's Stuff is also good as far as not just Projectile Point's and Arrowheads go.

[Ashley1972]

Thanks

[SDhunter]

Welcome Ashley. Post some here. You will get plenty of information!

[oldrocks2]

Welcome Ashley. You are out of my area for points but tools are pretty common here also and their design and function are pretty much the same across all areas, so post some pics and am sure you will get some help.

[Hunting_Dad]

I have always been struck by the similarities in material and form of artifacts from mid Atlantic states to what we have here in the northeast. The original typology book published by the MA Archeological Society has quite a few pages dedicated to non "arrowhead" type artifacts..... everything from simple gravers and hammerstones to pestles and pottery. I suspect it would be a good resource from which you could do more extensive research. Here is a link....

https://www.shop.massarchaeology.org/product.sc?productId=30&categoryId=2

[Hoss]

welcome to arrowheads.com

[Jethro355]

Welcome aboard, please post pics!😇

[Ashley1972]

Thanks everyone. Having a tough time with pics.

[Ashley1972]

I have a question about dating sights. All the good places that I have found in central Virginia, within a 10 mile radius don’t have pottery. I have yet to see any pottery. You would think that the sites are pre-pottery but I don’t feel like they are that old. Until I can gain the knowledge, I’ll feel a little lost.
A couple years ago I stumbled on a site near my childhood home. There are literally tons of pristine tools, scrapers blades, micro-tools etc. I’ve excavated a hole about 3’x 3’ and maybe two feet deep. I’ve gotten 5 or 6, 5gallon buckets full of these relics. I have no clue how big it’ll eventually get. But from raking the leaves back this little spot is 10 or 20 times bigger than what I’ve uncovered. I need to go back to it but I have a bad back and it limits everything. When it rains there’s a place in my yard where I can pick up stone tools. The other day one of my dogs started mimicking me and was digging holes. I went to cover up his biggest hole, when I noticed it was full of tools. Now I have a 2x2x2 hole in my back yard and it’s full of relics. It’s so thick that I can barely get a screwdriver in the dirt to dig stuff out. This spot seems to have maybe been a shelter. I’m digging lots residue from tool making and lots of tools. I also got some charcoal out of it. Anyone got access to a carbon 14 test site? I’d love to date this spot. Thanks again for responding and I’ll try again to get some pictures posted. I’ve never had trouble posting pics on any other site, but I’ll get it straight.

[JoshinMO]

The best digging tool I have used is a pick, The small kind only a couple feet long. I'm not saying It won't damage anything, but You can loosen The tight stuff with It. I don't find much Pottery either.

[tomclark]

"excavated a hole about 3’x 3’ and maybe two feet deep. I’ve gotten 5 or 6, 5 gallon buckets full of these relics." I call BS, Ash. lol Finds would be like over 20% of everything dug out of the hole. (There's about 24 5 gal buckets in 2/3 of a yard of fill/soil. I think. ("I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!") Sure I could be wrong with the math but.....

Pls post some pics of ANYTHING from these buckets so we can help ya and save your back. I see/feel your passion but also think now from verbiage in your posts that you are digging debitage, "fits in the hand items (FITH's) or just shapes. Some of us have been here for many years and have been collecting/hunting for decades/lifetimes. We really want to see and help you find your way with items, info and the "hobby". Woi.

[Ashley1972]

First of all, I don’t do the storytelling thing. That’s the same as calling me a liar and my southern pride won’t accept that. Secondly, at that site every stone tool is pristine. Lots of them still have some pitch from being hafted. I may not know what all the tools are that I’m digging but I can tell if a tool has been used or not. I can also tell if a rock has been shaped by humans or not. I’m fairly new to the Indian relic world and I wish I knew more. I didn’t take a tape measure and get exact dimensions on the holes I dug but I can tell if a 5 gallon bucket is mostly full or not. The spot my dog found in my back yard is even thicker with relics than the other spot. When I first started digging you couldn’t push a flat head screw driver anywhere. Most of these tools were used and I’ve gotten charcoal and a few pieces of wood from this hole, also. There are places in this hole where organic material once was and the stains in the soil is all that remains. My last dig exposed the beginning of a fire pit. This spot seems like it was a hut or some type of habitation. I like it because I’ve gotten tools and pieces of tools where they knapped around quartz to expose areas of transparency. Almost like jewelery or maybe prestige objects. If you’re ever close to Louisa Virginia look me up and I’ll personally show you the places where I found the relics that you seem to think I’m exaggerating about. Send me your email address and I’ll try to get some pictures to you. I’m not gonna waste any more time trying to load pictures to the forum until I have time. My wife just had surgery for colon cancer and my priorities don’t include loading pics to a site where I was insulted for my relic story. You may want to think twice or investigate a post before calling people a liar. Most people aren’t as nice and forgiving as I am. Good luck digging.

[SDhunter]

I pray your wife gets through this with perfect health.

[CMD]

I hope your wife pulls through and her cancer is in complete remission without any further problems in that area.

As far as being called a liar, I don't think you were. I think what was really being said is that, based on your description, it is almost surely the case that you are mistaken in your accessment of what you are finding. It may be debitage, it may be rocks. Not being able to upload photos of course makes it quite impossible to know for certain, but the unlikelihood of what your describing is quite high. Being mistaken is certainly not the same as being a liar. That said, I think a term other then bs could have been offered, because I do understand how one might interpret bs to mean "liar". However, knowing Tom, he was just saying he doubted you were correct in your interpretation. Mistaken, in other words, not a liar.

[wamfam]

Hi Ashley. Hope all is well as I see this post is a few months old. Alycia and I just joined the forum in hopes to expand our knowledge and hunting sites. Yours sounds amazing and we'd love to see what you're finding and show you our collection. We are still very much learning but have found many artifacts in the Greensprings District on private land. We are between Gordonsville and Zion's Crossroads. Thanks.

[Quartzite Keith]

What CMD says above is exactly what I was thinking. It really sounds like a work site near a rock source. See if the descriptions given of such sites in pages 159-227 of the book below helps any:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x001726249;view=1up;seq=11

I'm in Richmond and have spent the past decade learning to knap the local quartz and quartzite. In that sense I am very familiar with the material. I know just west of Richmond large seams of milky quartz are common in Powhatan and Buckingham Counties, so I suspect the same is true in Louisa. (Here in Richmond it is all in cobble/gravel form, having tumbled down river from up your way.) The thing with the quartz is that it so full of tiny cracks, seams and imperfections that huge amounts of debitage are generated to make a few small points. I am happy with a 25% success rate with the material, it is just that flawed. I think that is what you finding. I would love to look at what you have found some day, if possible.

On the lack of pottery: For perspective, pottery comes in at the Early Woodland period, so generally speaking, was only being made for about 2 thousand years prior to contact while Clovis goes back to 13,500 years ago, so you have like 10,00 years in there where stone tools were made, but pottery wasn't. (Approximately).

Another good source for Virginia, although just for "points" and lithic sources:

https://www.dhr.virginia.gov/archaeology/projectile-points-lithic-types/

If you want to make a short trip, The Virginia Department of Historic Resources is in Richmond at 2801 Kensington Ave. They have an extensive collection of artifacts the public is allowed to look through, you just need to call ahead. 804-482-6441

Keep digging,

Keith

[Ashley1972]

Thanks Keith. Would you like to come to Louisa and see the sites I’m talking about and dig a little to verify what I’m telling these people. Shoot me a text or email. If you call please leave a message. The robot calls are driving me nuts and I block every number that doesn’t leave a message. I stopped for lottery tickets the other day and picked up about two five gallon buckets of nice relics in less than an hour. Until someone like you verifys my story I’ll just keep them to myself! I can’t help that I’ve found places where the relics are literally falling out of the sides of hills and I can’t help that just because others haven’t found such sites, they don’t believe they exist. Maybe they think that people new to the hobby are to ignorant or inexperienced! I’ll leave it at that. I won’t insult them like I was.
Thanks,
Ashley Fletcher 540-223-2996
[email]afletcher1972@gmail.com