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  • Help with European Coin

    Just curious if the country and date range can be determined here. Both are the same coin type. First photo shows the best condition side of each coin. Where the side with a shield is concerned, I have seen the castles described as the castles of Castile, and the lions as the lion of Lyon, and I’ve seen that shield incorporated into the Coat of Arms of the Hapsburgs. Depending on the date, it’s possible my grandfather picked these up during the round the world voyage of the Great White Fleet, 1907-1909, since some of the other coins that his son, my uncle, gave me were obtained during that voyage, but the ship he was on only stopped in Italy on the sail from Egypt to Gibraltar.

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    Rhode Island

  • #2
    That's a toughie for me. I'm not sure, but I might know someone who does.
    "The education of a man is never completed until he dies." Robert E. Lee

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    • #3
      Hi Charlie

      That's the Spanish arms on the shield. It's Spanish colonial coinage, Ferdinand VII. The design is broadly the same as this One Quarto piece:

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      However, what's a bit odd is that the workmanship is very poor and the '2' in the date is back to front. I don't know if this is a function of it being produced at a provincial colonial mint not operating to the standards one would expect from Spanish coinage of this era, or an unofficial token, contemporary fake, modern fantasy 'replica', or whatever.
      Last edited by painshill; 06-08-2020, 09:13 AM.
      I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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      • #4
        Both of Charlie's coins look to have been circulated. The wear looks natural to me.
        Michigan Yooper
        If You Don’t Stand for Something, You’ll Fall for Anything

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        • #5
          Did a bit more digging and it seems that these coins from Spain's colonial provincial mints were much cruder in workmanship than Spanish-produced pieces. I think yours may have been minted in Manila in the Philippines. You didn't give us a diameter but if its 18mm it will be an 'Octavo' and if it's 22mm it will be a 'Quarto'. Eight Octavos or four Quartos equalled one Real. Eight Reals equalled one Peso.

          Doesn't really explain why the '2' is backwards, except for the possibility of a ham-fisted Philippino die-engraver.

          I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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          • #6
            Amazing detective work as usual!

            The link doesn't work to the actual coin, but I see a picture of a slabbed 1829 Manila quarto with the backwards 2. Probably just a ham-fisted die maker.

            It was probably different because many countries in South America were independent by then, but a cuarto was worth a little less than a cent of a peso. In Latin America 112 cuartos made a peso, but they were based on the different metals copper vs silver (peso) vs gold (escudo.) Governments tended to care a lot more about the silver and gold coinage, the copper coinage was mostly used by the really poor people.

            Click image for larger version

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            Hong Kong, but from Indiana/Florida

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            • #7
              Well found Joshua.

              This would have been under Spanish rule of course. From 1565 to 1898, what is now the Philippines was under Spanish rule (apart from a short occupation of Manila by British forces). Initially it was administered as a territory of the Mexico-based vice-royalty of New Spain and then directly from Madrid in Spain after the Mexican War of Independence. When the Spanish-American War began in 1898, they saw an opportunity to escape from Spanish rule and declared independence on 12th June that that year.

              I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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              • #8
                The information here... just one more example of why this site is so cool. Glad to be a part of it.
                Headwaters of the Little Miami, Ohio

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                • #9
                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	460136 Need help with this one painshill, It’s pretty worn, I have some coins but I’m not a coin collector thank you.



                  Floridaboy.

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                  • Hoss
                    Hoss commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The M with an O over it means Mexico minted. not sure what monetary value but that is a nice old coin.

                • #10
                  Thank you Roger and Joshua for tracking this down. I meant to include dimensions, I measure 21mm, so it must be 22mm denomination. Could have been picked up by my grandfather, as the Great White fleet did stop in the Philippines.
                  Rhode Island

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                  • #11
                    Hi Hal.

                    Again, that’s Spanish colonial, but this time from Mexico. Self-evidently, it’s Philip V and the ‘Mo’ each side of the date is for the Mexico City mint. He abdicated from the Spanish throne in 1724 in favour of his son, but his son died a few months later and he resumed the throne for a second time until 1746.


                    On the reverse side, the ‘MF’ indicates the silver was assayed by Manuel & Francisco (de la Pena). I have rotated your picture to be the correct orientation. My red arrow points to where there should be a number (the value in Reals) or a symbol (for fractionals of the Real). It appears to be a cross (+), which would be a half Real.


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                    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

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                    • Hoss
                      Hoss commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks Roger. Good info

                    • Hal Gorges
                      Hal Gorges commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Much thanks, very interesting thread.

                  • #12
                    Thank you Roger and Joshua for helping out with this. I learn something new every day .
                    TN formerly CT Visit our store http://stores.arrowheads.com/store.p...m-Trading-Post

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                    • #13
                      The Philippines went from Spanish to American rule for a spell. The fleet my grandfather sailed with did include the Philippines as a port of call, but only a few years after the Philippine-American War, 1899-1902. The Philippines were finally granted independence by the US in 1946:

                      Rhode Island

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