indian pipe...

[jeuneroche]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum and to the indian artifacts. I'm collecting african and oceanian antiques but have not any knowledge about indian artifacts. And in France, where I live, I don't have much of a chance to get good advices about this matter !
Could some one here help determine if this pipe is authentic or not ? I know there are lots of fakes in this particular kind of steatite great pipes. It's ten inches long and weighs 3,3 pounds.
Thanks in advance for any information, help or advice and
Very Happy New Year to everybody,
Daniel

[jeuneroche]

Sorry I did not upload correctly my pics. Here are others. THX

[jeuneroche]

I seem to be definitely unable to upload several pics together, shame to me!
Daniel

[greywolf22]

Can you take a picture of the inside of the pipe head (where the tabacco was placed for smoking), also the inside of the mouth piece.
Jack

[greywolf22]

There are a lot of fakes out there. This caltinite pipe was sold to me as the real deal, but was a modern piece, I returned it.

[jeuneroche]

here it is

[jeuneroche]

And the second one:
Thanks

[greywolf22]

Bore hole is to clean, it does not show any use.If pipe had been used, the inside would be stained dark with use. Also if the pipe had been lost in ancient times, then later found the inside would show dirt and mineral stain from being in the ground or on top of the ground. I would say it is a reproduction based on the pictures.
Jack
See pictures of used pipe, you can see the build up of the tars and carbon from being smoked over many years:

[jeuneroche]

Hello Jack,
I got it,
Thanks for your help,
Daniel

[greywolf22]

Daniel
This Steatite Great Pipe is 7 ¾" long: This Flying Eagle Effigy Pipe was found in Cumberland County KY and is one of only about 80 of its type in private hands. Its also known to be one of the most decoratively artistic forms of all prehistoric relics and has many highly pronounced features such as highly developed head, beak, wings, legs and tucked feet as though it were in a dive during flight. It has formerly graced such prominent collections as Dr. T. Hugh Young and Clem Caldwell. Also pictured in many publications such as Legends of Prehistoric Art, Prehistoric America And Who's Who in Indian Relics.Value is around $48,000.00. Cox Artifacts has it for sale.
Jack

[greywolf22]

Daniel
Steatite or soapstone is found in outcrops over much of the eastern United States, along parts of the West Coast, and in isolated locations in between. Pipe makers used steatite extensively across the United States, but especially in the Southeast beginning in the Early Woodland period. Throughout the long period of use, steatite seems to have been traded as a raw material (local pipe forms made of out-of-area steatite) or as finished products (exotic pipe forms of steatite in local areas). No other stone was so suitable for this purpose. It is not injured by heat, and compact steatite is not easily fractured. It can be carved or drilled without very great labor, and some of the varieties have a surface nearly as brilliant as marble, when polished. Green and black steatite quarried from the Virginia-Carolina region was a favorite raw material of prehistoric pipe makers. As Woodland Culture trade networks expanded westward, quantities of both raw steatite and finished steatite products such as pipe forms were distributed throughout the Ohio and Cumberland.
Jack

[CliffJ]

Good info, Jack. I agree that Daniel's pipe appears to be modern.
To pick up the story where you left off, steatite trade continues into historic times. Many simple steatite pipes were carved by settlers and Indians alike during the contact period. As soon as iron tools were available, the Natives used them to carve. The best sources of black steatite were quarried into oblivion, and the purest material is now cherished by carvers. When enterprising farmers realized that they could carve pipes etc to sell, a home industry was born that still operates today esp. in Western NC and Eastern TN where the steatite is available. The styles of these historic (modern) pipes are varied and imaginative and virtually has no limit. Traditional styles tend to mimic old pipes that were published in the literature of the day.
Modern steatite pipes are everywhere in collections and on websites and auctions. Very few of these ever were used by any Indians. Modern pipes can usually be detected though. As Jack said, some ancient pipes will show the burned residue in the bowl. Yet others may have lost that organic carbon layer. Heat will alter steatite and will make it harder and perhaps stain it around the bowl. Modern pipes will often have a shape that belies its sawed out blank, and will sometimes show the marks of modern tools. Ancient steatite pipes have a hard polished surface that is difficult to replicate but usually fairly easy to spot. Indians did not have sandpaper or anything like it, they used grinding and polishing stones and sand. Sandpaper is flexible and will leave the steatite surface irregular- removing softer areas and leaving surrounding harder areas higher on the surface. When a steatite pipe is buried, it will get scratched up and it will show mineralization due to the iron in the steatite. This is not to be confused with the rust that appears normally within the steatite structure, which begins to form as soon as the surface is exposed. The lesser grades of steatite will have higher levels of minerals in it, which make it harder to carve and also are often mistaken for mineralization, instead of the unweathered natural impurities that it really is.
Look for tool marks, improper style, unnatural or waxed finish, improper drilling, and lack of wear around the holes. If a pipe was used and buried, it should show it. Collecting ancient pipes is definitely a "buyer-beware" situation, as thousands of modern pipes are available and more are made every day.

[CliffJ]

Here is an example of a modern reproduction that has been trying to stay sold for a good while, and many people have examined it in-hand. It is supposed to be a finished owl pipe and is polished. However, after it was polished, it was pecked to give it an "older looking" finish. The holes are incorrect for anciently drilled, and the surface shows no ground mineralization or use wear. The style of this pipe mimics Archaic great pipes, but the pipe is much smaller than is correct for ancient. Eventually, like most modern replicas, it will sell to an unwary collector at the bargain price asked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=190484059373&si=%252BXXTUNs7uGoITMa679wKRaODymU%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[greywolf22]

Cliff
Great info. Education is everthing in collecting artifacts.
Jack

[jeuneroche]

Thanks a lot to both of you for all these precious informations,
It makes quite a difference to be able to rely on experts experience and knowledge !
Daniel