Baby Birdies

[greywolf22]

Tim
"The Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows and Quivers Volume I" by Steve Allely and Jim Hamm is a pretty good refrence book. Its a book full of detailed drawings of some of the most exceptional archery pieces from eastern tribes such as the Mohegan, Mohawk, Cherokee, Seminole, Chippewa, and Winnebago. It has detailed pen & ink illustrations give dimensions, decorations, and construction details on more than a hundred historic bows, scores of arrows, and more than a dozen quivers from over thirty tribes.




Jack

[Lithophylic]

Hey not knowing that much about the west....were horses widespread before the spread of europeans westward?  I know that horses were introduced into the area by the Spanish, but I have never had a grasp on when horses became widely used by indians; before or after we crossed the Mississippi.  Most indians in the east were moved or ran out physically or through desease in the 1600-1700s.  I also know here when europeans became established, lithic production all but ceased and copper and I assume iron points become more popular, I assume along with bone/anter points, but iron, bone, etc does not last too long in my part of the woods.  Do you find many bone points in the west?  Where are you Paleo?  thanks for the input.
Tim

[greywolf22]

Tim
From Wikipedia on Horse and Plains Indian.
The horse enabled the Plains Indians to gain their subsistence with relative ease from the seemingly limitless buffalo herds. The horse enabled the Plains Indians to travel faster and further in search of bison herds and to transport more goods, thus enjoying a richer material environment than their pedestrian ancestors.
Coronado brought five hundred and fifty-eight horses with him on his 1539–1542 expedition. At the time, the Indians of these regions had never seen a horse, although they had probably heard of them from contacts with Indians in Mexico. Only two of Coronado's horses were mares, so Coronado was highly unlikely to have been the source of the horses that Plains Indians later adopted as the cornerstone of their culture. Juan de Onate, however, brought 7,000 head of livestock with him when he came north in 1598 to establish a colony in New Mexico. His horse herd included mares as well as stallions.
Pueblo Indians learned about horses by working on the ranches of the Spanish colonists. The Spanish attempted to keep knowledge of riding away from Indians, but the Indians learned and some fled their servitude to Spanish masters—and took the horses with them. Slowly, the Indians adopted the horse into their culture and built up the numbers in their herds. By 1659, the Navajo from northwestern New Mexico were raiding the Spanish colonies to steal horses. And by 1664, the Apaches of the Great Plains were trading captives from other tribes to the Spanish for horses. The real beginning of the horse culture of the plains began with the expulsion of the Spanish from New Mexico in 1680 when the victorious Pueblo Indians captured thousands of horses and other livestock. They traded many of the horses to the Plains Indians. In 1683 a Spanish expedition into Texas found horses among the Indians. In 1690, a few were found by the Spanish among the Indians living at the mouth of the Colorado River of Texas and the Caddo of eastern Texas had a sizeable number.
The French explorer Claude Charles Du Tisne found 300 horses among the Wichita on the Verdigris River in 1719, but they were still not plentiful. Another Frenchman, Bourgmont, could only buy seven at a high price from the Kaw in 1724, further indicating that horses were still scarce among tribes in Kansas. While the distribution of horses proceeded slowly northward on the Great Plains, it moved more rapidly through the Rocky Mountains and the Great Basin, possibly stimulated by the Navajo. The Shoshone in Wyoming had horses by about 1700 and the Blackfoot of Saskatchewan, the most northerly of the large Plains tribes, acquired horses in the 1730s.[6] By 1770, that Plains Indians culture was mature, consisting of mounted buffalo-hunting nomads from Saskatchewan and Alberta southward nearly to the Rio Grande. It had hardly reached maturity when the pressure from Europeans on all sides and European diseases caused its decline.
It was the Comanche, coming to the attention of the Spanish in New Mexico in 1706, who first realized the potential of the horse. As pure nomads, hunters, and pastoralists, well supplied with horses, they swept the mixed-economy Apaches from the plains and by the 1730s were dominant in the Great Plains south of the Arkansas River.The success of the Comanche encouraged other Indian tribes to adopt a similar lifestyle. The southern Plains Indians acquired vast numbers of horses. By the 19th century, Comanche and Kiowa men owned an average of 35 horses and mules each – and only six or seven were necessary. The horses extracted a toll on the environment as well as requiring labor to care for the herd. Formerly equalitarian societies became more divided by wealth with a negative impact on the role of women. Rich men took several wives and captives (slaves) to manage their possessions, especially horses.
The milder winters of the southern Plains favored the acquisition of horses by the Indians.On the northeastern Plains of Canada, the Indians were less favored, with families owning fewer horses, remaining more dependent upon dogs for transporting goods, and hunting bison on foot. The scarcity of horses in the north encouraged raiding and warfare in competition for the relatively small number of horses that survived the severe winters.
The Dakota or Sioux enjoyed the happy medium between North and South and became the dominant Plains Indians tribe in the 19th century. They had relatively small horse herds, thus having less impact on their ecosystem. At the same time they occupied the heart of prime buffalo range and also an excellent region for furs which could be sold to French and American traders for goods such as guns. The Dakota became the most powerful of the Plains tribes and the greatest threat to American expansion.
For all the Plains Indians the horse became an item of prestige as well of utility and the Indians were extravagantly fond of their horses and the life style they permitted.
Jack

[Paleolution]

Tim,
I think the spread of horses in the west came from the early expeditions from the Spanish.  They were after gold, but encountered some peaceful Utes on the way over the Rockies.  The Utes were at an advantage because they traded with the whites instead of fighting with them.  I'm sure there were plenty of raiding Arapahoes, Cheyenne, Pawnee and other plains tribes that stole horses regularly.  Although the heart of the Rockies weren't settled until the late 1800's, there were parties of trappers and Spanish around the 1700's all over the west.  I know it was also during that time when trade points and guns were coming onto the scene.  We find a lot of bird points associated with metal artifacts in the Ute camps.  Just before they were forced into SW CO, they would camp along the Colorado river and there have been thousands of metal artifacts as well as wikiups that are still standing today found all along the river.  I live in an area considered a sacred place for many tribes, at the birth place of the Colorado river.  It's just over the continental divide from Denver and Boulder, and we're at 8,000 to 9,000 feet in elevation.  The main attraction was Grand Lake, or translated from Utes "spirit lake".  Which also gave the name to Grand River (CO River), and Grand County (where I live).  I don't know of any bone or antler points from my immediate area, but I have one iron point I found on the surface, and I have a friend that has thousands of metal points he finds with a detector.  It's amazing the things he has found in these camps, bullet molds, bullets, gun pieces, mirrors, combs, tinklers, bits and bridles, metal points, buttons, beads, as well as stone points.  My favorite is a calvary belt buckle that has triangles cut out of it to make points, and a section of gun barrel that was turned into a shaman's blow tube or pipe.  Once the powder ran out, they would smash up all the available metal and make points.
Tyson

[greywolf22]

Tyson
Could you post some pictures of the metal points he has found. I would like to see the difference in types.Good information.
Thanks
Jack

[Paleolution]

Jack,
I will have to get some taken. I only have a photo of mine. He is known for his metal collection, hopefully he won't mind if I get some pics. Literally thousands of metal points and tools. I know two professional archaeologists that are dying to study his metal collection. They say it's one of the most complete in the US. Here is a photo of mine, which he says is the indian made style. I will ask Jim if I could take some photos of his metal stuff next time I go visit him.
Here is a Ute camp wikiup found along the CO River, they call this style a "leaner"...

[greywolf22]

Tyson
I have only seen one large collection of metal points and that is owned by Dwain Rogers. He has a good collection from across the U.S. I need to get a picture of his collection and post it. I will see him in June.
If I had seen that wikiup in the woods I would think it was a wood pile. How old do you think it is?
Jack

[Paleolution]

My friends name is Jim Chase, he owns and operates Dup-La-Cast.  His collection is all from along the CO river.  I have heard of Dwain Rogers, I'd love to see what he has!  I know of a few wikiups, but this is the only one I have found partially standing, and Jim knows of a few.  There was also a pile of poles near this wiki that I didn't get a photo of.  There was a family ranch near the base of the mountain that this wiki is on, and they had family stories of Ute camp fires on the mountain as recent as 1875.  In the history of the U.S. our area is fairly young.  The last Utes that were in our county was in the summer of 1875.  They were friendly, but they started to fight the settlers when the whites built a structure over their sacred hot springs (town of Hot Suphur Springs, CO).  They ended up burning it to the ground.  After the fire, they were squatting in a settlers yard in protest, and a fight broke out.  A Ute chief named Tabernash was shot and killed.  The same party then fled, and ended up shooting a white settler near the CO river.  They then met with some other settlers on their way out of the county and told them that they were even and they wouldn't be back...

[greywolf22]

Tyson
That is a good story. So the pile been there a while.
Jack

[macgrube]

I agree children guarded the crops, there are places in the world where they still do. As for points smaller than an inch, the smaller the point the better the penetration. I think the most highly skilled hunters would have used them, they knew what it takes to put food on the table. If I were I hunter back then I would've spent more time hunting then crafting points, anything I could find that's small, thin and sharp would've been attached to my arrow.

[Lithophylic]

Man I would love to detect with him.  Here metal does not survive due to the wet humid climate.  Although I have come across some flint lock pieces from the late 1600s that have survived, but only because they were buried in clay.  Between you and Grey, I feel almost educated.  Thanks for the info.

[shartis]

Carrier Pigions numbered in the millions when Indians were around. One site I hunt about all you find are very small quartz bird points like the quartz one in the picture. Found over a hundred with about all having a ear or point broke. No pottery or much else. Could it have been a place were the birds roosted. Shot a bunch of points at them up in the trees?

[greywolf22]

I know I like to eat White Wing Dove and if those Pigions tasted the same I would be out there shooting something at them.
Jack

[shartis]

Yah I ate plenty of Doves. Never tried pigions. Think they are a litte bigger might not take as many for a meal.

[Lithophylic]

Shartis, I love those fields.

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