Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

does anyone have?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • does anyone have?

    does anyone have?
    Posted by [PaArtifact Hunter]


    Moderator Note: this thread was first posted in 2011 but failed to transfer across to the new forum when the software was updated, and so has been re-created manually.


    Does anyone have any chunky game stones? I have seen these circle game stones on display and they were calling them hammer stones.....any pics would be great Thank You!



    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Tom
    In this game, a round stone with concave sides was rolled down a field by one person while the player attempted to knock it over or alter its path by hitting it with a throwing stick.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8294.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	20.8 KB
ID:	441350 Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8295.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	18.8 KB
ID:	441351 Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8296.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	10.7 KB
ID:	441352


    Jack


    Posted by [PaArtifact Hunter]
    cool pic. do ya think they were all beveled out like that or do you suppose some would be not so beveled out? I have many that are not like that but have indents similar. I assume they are mississippian in the photos as that is the most comon found in the pics you shared?


    Posted by [greywolf22]
    Tom
    They also made these without the dishout, but these might be unfisnished or might have been used for the game, but would have a disadvantage on the ones dished out. I think the dishout helped in rolling the stone as it gave a better grip, something to hold on to so they could throw it faster.
    Yes all Mississippian.
    Jack


    Posted by [Butch Wilson]

    http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/i...ler-discoidals


    Posted by [Butch Wilson]
    I got a rock that looks like my Grandma's biscuits.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8297.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	441353 Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8298.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	81.7 KB
ID:	441354




    Posted by [PaArtifact Hunter]
    Butch Wilson wrote:
    I got a rock that looks like my Grandma's biscuits.

    is it just a rock or an actual game stone? mine that I found are similar with notched out centers on both sides and a smooth rim like they were rolled.The State museum said they were hammerstones and I disagreed with them on there hammerstones/discodials hmmmm....


    Posted by [Butch Wilson]
    This one is sandstone, if you used it for a hammerstone, you would have a handful of sand. Could be a biscuit discoidal or just a rock that looks like Grandma's Biscuits.


    Posted by [PaArtifact Hunter]
    Discoidals: Discoidals or chunky stones seem to appear at sites dating late in Pennsylvania prehistory. In southwestern Pennsylvania they are principally found on Late Prehistoric villages (1100- 500 BP) of the Monongahela Culture. Discoidal stones look much like a prehistoric hockey puck, although they were not used for that purpose! Instead they were used in the game of chunkey. This game allowed a person to hone their spear throwing skill by throwing a stick at a rolling chunkey stone, hoping to either knock over the stone or land their stick closest to where the stone stopped . A few specimens have a concavity on each of its flat sides that can end as a perforation in the center of the stone. Some discoidals are made from fine to medium coarse grained sandstones from local source outcrops. While the more elaborate examples generally found at Mississippian sites further west in the Ohio/Mississippivalley or in the south, are often made from more resistant stone such as granite. Examples of discoidal stones in the archaeological collections of The State Museum of Pennsylvania reveal some hint as to their method of manufacture. A discoidal starts out as tabular stone that has been roughly chipped into a disc-shape. The irregular rough edges are then ground down to create the final shape. Engraved shell gorgets and pipe stones discovered at some Mississippian sites of the mid-West depict discoidals being used in contests whereby the individual is seen in a crouched posture ready to roll the discoidal along the ground.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8299.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	36.4 KB
ID:	441355

    A color example of a shell gorget found in Kentucky picturing a chunkey player

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8300.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	55.9 KB
ID:	441356

    A chunkey player carved in pipe stone found in Oklahoma

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8301.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	13.8 KB
ID:	441357

    from website:
    twipa.blogspot.com/2011/04/thoughts-on-​g.html
    Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 08:42 AM.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

  • #2
    Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]
    does the grinding stone in this picture look like a grinding stone or discodial/chunky/biscuit?

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8302.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	441361



    Posted by [SDhunter]
    Would you call these stones game stones?

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8303.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	83.7 KB
ID:	441362


    Here's a picture of a pretty good hammerstone, below

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8304.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	65.8 KB
ID:	441363 Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8305.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	61.2 KB
ID:	441364 Click image for larger version

Name:	image_8306.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	70.0 KB
ID:	441365


    Gary


    Posted by [itwasluck]
    What state did you find those hammer stones?

    Posted by [SDhunter]
    These were all found in NE SD, but the very large round rock, was found in SE ND.
    I found them all but the large one and the black one.

    Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]
    Gary they are similar but mine are worn around the sides like it was rolled and have dimples on both sides like the were hit with arrows I need my camera I promise I will get my pics up of them.
    Last edited by painshill; 04-13-2020, 08:44 AM.
    I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

    Comment


    • #3
      Posted by [rmartin]
      Here is a discoidal my brother found 3 years ago. About 30 feet of river bank collapsed and it was laying on top about 5 feet from the water. It is 4 1/2 inches in diamater. I apologize for the pic, this was basacally right out of the ground when I took it.

      http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/...tifacts184.jpg not found


      Posted by [CliffJ]
      It looks like a nice biscuit stone grinder sitting on top of a very nice food processor "motherstone". This set shows typical use wear from crushing seeds, and the face of the motherstone is polished from the grinding. The faces of the grinder will show polish like the smoothness of the inside of the motherstone. Similar artifacts without use polish at all are just slabs of rock. Hammerstones and pitted hammerstones are very common tools found. These will show damage from use as a hammer. The pits on those were fingerholds to use while beating with them.
      Discoidals or chunkey stones will usually have a high degree of polish on all surfaces. The edges will not be beat up from hammering, and the top and bottom are smoothed from manufacture and hand polish. If you are ever lucky enough to find a discoidal it will be quite obvious that it is not a hammerstone.
      The pic with 3 pieces shows very typical game pieces, which were used as counters (like poker chips) in another game. Those are fairly thin, and the holed one may have been used as a bead.
      VERY sweet discoidal in the pic just above this!


      Posted by [CliffJ]
      itwasluck wrote:
      Cliff you have alot of useful knowledge and I thank you for sharing some for us. I am trying to figure out which ones you are saying are hammer stones and which arent. The round ones do you think they are game stones or hammer stones? I have some round ones that look just like those that I believe are game stones. They show no damage on them at all. Very smooth


      Round rocks can be many things. They can be natural. They can be natural with hammered areas as the one SD showed, thus a hammerstone or abrader. They can also be completely pecked into that round shape, then polished over the pecking. These are game balls, used in some marble-type game. It can be challenging to tell the difference between a natural rock and a pecked/polished rock in-hand, much less from a picture.
      I only see one true discoidal on these posts- that posted by rmartin that was found by his brother. While a crude misshapen pitted hammerstone might roll ok, the chunkgee game involved ceremony and pomp and they cherished those fine discoidals and the game. The game was played with DULL sticks which did not create the divots in the side- they were manufactured (and polished) into them. They had many many more hammers than they ever had discoidals in any village, and as I said before, when you have a true disc in hand you will know it was never a hammerstone of any kind.


      Posted by [PaArtifactHunter]
      cliff lets see your own discodils and hammers......
      I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow that game was not only fun, but must have also helped hone their hunting skills for small running game!

        Comment

        Working...
        X