25k year-old sloth bone pendants found in Brazil

[BoilerMike]

https://www.iflscience.com/humans-made-giant-sloth-bone-jewelry-over-25000-years-ago-in-brazil-69778

Several articles available from different sources reporting on this topic today. Wow - Worth a look!

I find it interesting that some of them imply a significant faction of archaeology is still skeptical whether humans were in the Americas more than 16,000 years ago. Ummm… were the White Sands footprints not accepted by expert consensus? I thought this was no longer a doubt. That’s why I linked this instead of the CNN article, but it notably made their website front page too.

[Garguy]

I have read all the info on this. This one should be clear cut. I do wish they had shown the stone tools found in direct context though.

[gregszybala]

We just keep on finding out more.

[SGT.Digger]

They assume that the sloths went extinct at the end of the ice age with no real way to prove that hypothesis. Maybe they are flat wrong. After all they have found the skins of sloths in South America . I put the date closer to 4000 ago when these were made . ( creationist point of view)

[BoilerMike]

The CNN article explains slightly better how they came up with the date. I would expect it to be cross-examined pretty hard. What’s the old saying, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” (or something like that )

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/12/americas/giant-sloth-bone-pendants-scn/index.html

[Garguy]

Proof has been out there for 30 years. Some of the best known archaeologist made it their life mission to destroy the folks that made amazing discoveries. Called them frauds and publicly ruined them instead of taking the opportunity to vett the work and advance the science. It's a total disgrace. Every time one of those ol bass turds die, we make strides.

[Cecilia]

Archeologists very cut-throat among selves, and I say that with greatest respect.

[BoilerMike]

Your rhetoric in the last statement is obviously over the top, but if I’m not mistaken, this is personal to you. I’ve seen the archives where someone with a username similar to yours, dug in clay layers below Clovis excavations and continued to find those unbelievable western stemmed “sloth slayers” as you call them. I was fascinated when I came across those pictures and some reports from years ago, but haven’t found much info following that up.

I think that was you, right? If so, have any professional excavations ever picked up where you left off? Or might you be one of those folks who felt the veracity of the Clovis-first pushback? (I’d have to assume). And now that Clovis first is seen as antiquated, has anything changed regarding interest in those pieces and where they came from?

[Garguy]

Boiler Mike, I am the guy that dug the sloth slayers. A great opportunity was missed there as I invited folks to come dig and date. Dr Collins at TSTU Gault Lab was pretty much the only guy to listen. Several others that never met me took the opportunity to slander me. I was flabbergasted. I never made outrageous assertions, just presented the facts.

Now, the folks that dug down south had great discoveries. Solid carbon dating. Grad students carefully excavating. A couple of the best known archaeologist destroyed them. Reputations shattered, grad students future careers destroyed. Painted as scammers and frauds for 25 years.

Now we know they were telling exactly the truth and they should be on the leading edge today instead of having to find careers elsewhere . It was a coordinated intentional chit show.

[Cecilia]

I love to dig, for years and years with lil metal and big plastic shovels. Next lifetime I dig with you and your Dad, ok?

[BoilerMike]

You were adjacent to the Gault site, right? Can you share what Dr Collins and his organization thought of the finds? Also, did the Gault site itself produce any Sloth Slayers? I never saw anything like them in any of the pictures of the Gault assemblage that I’ve looked at.

[CMD]

https://www.iflscience.com/humans-ma...n-brazil-69778

Several articles available from different sources reporting on this topic today. Wow - Worth a look!

I find it interesting that some of them imply a significant faction of archaeology is still skeptical whether humans were in the Americas more than 16,000 years ago. Ummm… were the White Sands footprints not accepted by expert consensus? I thought this was no longer a doubt. That’s why I linked this instead of the CNN article, but it notably made their website front page too.

Yes, in fact, the age of the White Sands footprints is being questioned. Having to do with C-14 values are often skewed older when the plant remains tested were exposed to water:

https://www.popsci.com/science/white-sands-footprint-dating-debate/

Different dating methods will have to be used. The original team is defending the dates and do not think those dates will change….

[Ron Kelley]

Steeves approaches the existing ancient sites differently and finds that there’s a long history of what she describes as. “violent criticism against archaeologists discussing older sites.” Steeves says that this tendency to dismiss is rooted in archaeology’s use as a tool to discount Indigenous claims to North America. These footprints also aren’t the first find to contradict the 14,000 to 16,000 year settlement hypothesis. Possibly 30,000-year-old stone tools in a cave in central Mexico were discovered in 2020, with another find that may be more than 20,000 years old.

[Ron Kelley]

Scientific evidence will not always change what someone believes.

[Cecilia]

Amen

[CMD]

Many years ago, historian of science Thomas Kuhn explained how change occurs in science, in his seminal work “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions”:

https://www.shortform.com/summary/the-structure-of-scientific-revolutions-summary-thomas-kuhn

The thesis of Kuhn’s book has been boiled down to this: Science advances one funeral at a time. There is some truth to that….

[Garguy]

Never heard of the book but that's exactly the sentiment I expressed earlier. We should have known 35 years ago and a couple groups of fine archaeologist should have been heroes for their work instead of becoming plumbers and lawn guys.

[CMD]

https://pacojariego.me/2016/03/06/yes-science-advances-one-funeral-at-a-time/

[Tam]

I can’t remember who did the series on early man and the foot prints I watched . The giant sloths prints then mans following for food . Well theorized that’s what was happening .